I'm very excited for today's episode. I am here with my friend Emily Wilson Hussem. Emily, welcome to the Covenant Eyes Podcast. How are you today? It's so great to be here. What wonderful work you've done. Inspiring people, encouraging people. And I'm just grateful to chat with you today. And we're very, very grateful to be able to chat with you. I've, I've personally followed your work quite a bit on and off over the years. And, and like myself, you're very passionate about marriage and family, especially dating. And you know, this issue that we're trying to solve for the world of this problem of pornography. But first, Emily wanted to just tell us a little bit about yourself, your family and how you got into this work. Yeah, absolutely. So I was raised in what I joke as a tiny town called Los Angeles, California. My mom is a convert to Catholicism, and my dad is a strong Catholic. My mom converted to Catholicism when she was six months pregnant with me. So I was born into a family of vibrant faith people who loved the Lord, loved serving, loved giving, and that was the fabric of my life as a child. And as I grew up, I went to a Steubenville conference, and that was really pivotal in my life as a young person, really making my faith my own. And throughout that time, throughout high school, I just learned to love, you know, love the Lord on my own. And this personal following of Jesus came really to be. I then went to Arizona State University, where I got my degree in broadcast journalism from the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication over there, and I thought I was going to be a reporter for ESPN. This is similar to Sister Miriam story. We both wanted to be reporters for ESPN. And throughout that time, you know, the end of my time there, I read an encyclical by Pope Saint John Paul II called On the Dignity and Vocation of Women. And it radically transformed my life, radically transformed my life. After that, we'll make the version very truncated. I was waiting tables at a restaurant called California Pizza Kitchen, waiting for something to open up, waiting for the Lord to tell me what he wanted me to do. With this radical transformation in my life. And I became, through a series of real, God ordained moments, I became a high school teacher. So I worked with young women at a high school, and I was teaching. I was the campus minister, putting on all the retreats, putting on the masses, teaching, and it was beautiful. And throughout that time I had been involved in music ministry. So I was involved in singing in church from when I was small with my parents all the way up until through Arizona State University. And I had been giving, you know, doing music at retreats, giving talks, at retreats. Sometimes people would say like, well, you have experience in this. Can you give a talk for the young women? So just start a little by little. And then in 2015, blogs were big. I don't know how old your listeners are, if you how old you are listening out there, but blogs were huge and I was thinking about doing a blog called Ask Emily. Like a little column. But the Lord said, I want you to make YouTube videos. I want you to make a YouTube video. So I made my first YouTube video back in the Stone age in 2015, and everything took off from there. It's really been a journey of asking the Lord, what do you want me to do? And trying to say yes to that thing. I have no goals. I have no dreams. My dream. I always tell people, if we're just looking at my life, how I got here is to wake up and say yes to the Lord every day. And that's just what I've done this whole entire time. I never had a plan to write a book. I never had a plan to speak, you know, at events like Seek, No Plans whatsoever. And the Lord has just brought me all along the way to those moments and to where I am today. That that is awesome. You know, interestingly, I've, I've opened up that document that you just referenced by Pope Saint John Paul II a little bit recently on the dignity and vocation of women. I know that wasn't part of our plan, but can you just say a little a little bit about that? I think I think that has a lot of relevance right now at this time. I absolutely agree with you. I think every every person listening, you should read it. I know you probably have people of all different faith backgrounds listening to, your podcast, but on the dignity vocation of Women really highlights feminine nature. He dives into feminine nature and the complexities of the way women were made and what women were made for. He dives into the way Jesus honored the dignity of women constantly in the Gospels. And really what? Motherhood, right? We're talking spiritual and physical motherhood. Every woman is called to mother the world. How do women carry that out? He lays it all out in the most beautiful way. Some people get confused. It's different than Letter to Women. Some people say, oh, I've read Letter to Women. This is not letter to women. Letter to women is much shorter on the dignity vocation of women is is. It's not long. But it's a worthwhile read and you can read it on the Vatican website. It is amazing. I yes, and I definitely recommend that that read as well. Man. Pope Saint John Paul does that. We do a whole episode on him. You know, just for anyone who might object, like, oh, what do you know about marriage, family and womanhood? You're just the celibate old man living in a castle. But, I mean, Pope Saint John Paul II was God's perfect response to that whole thing. Oh, yeah, we can come back to that a little bit. But tell us just a little bit about the greatest part of your life. You are married, you have children. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely. That my husband and I just celebrated. Ten years of marriage. Congratulations. So my husband is from the Netherlands and I am from the United States of America. And we have our two sons. Our sons are seven and five, and our daughter is one. And it's just been this beautiful journey of we met in his home country and we've gone through, you know, so many visa processes. And now he's a citizen of the USA. And it's just been a real journey, our relationship of the Lord's faithfulness. Because when we met it, it was really the question of how how would this ever work? I mean, this is silly to think that we could ever, you know, continue our relationship from across the world. But the Lord is faithful every step of the way. And now we've been married ten years, and we look at each other and we cannot believe that. But our story is really one of God's faithfulness, that if he wants to make a way for something, he will make a way for something. We are living proof of that. And that's that's fantastic. You know, I've also noticed that in some threads, intercultural marriage has actually come up as a topic of discussion. What's that been like, or what would you have to say about that from your. Own experience? Sure. Intercultural marriages, because. A lot of people are inspired by our story to think outside the box in dating, which we can get to, to say, maybe the person God has for me doesn't live in my city. Maybe they don't even live in my state. Intercultural marriages can be very challenging, and that depends on the culture that you're marrying into. Some cultures are very just warm and relaxed, and some are like have certain ways that they do things, certain traditions that they're really like dead set on. That's a big part of their life and their infrastructure. So, just just marrying literally are two cultures of the United States, California and the United States, which is a different culture than you might find in other states. The the way I was raised is someone in Los Angeles. And then Dutch culture is very different. And so each moment throughout our marriage, in an intercultural marriage, it's really been asking the question of, is this a part of your culture? Is this a part of the way that your family operated when you were small, like, what's going on here between the two of us? Like, let's pinpoint why you why you act like this. So why this matters so much to you, why this is so important? Why do you care so much? Let's pinpoint that and distill it down and then go from there. So it's involves a lot of listening, a lot of humility, a lot of compassion, a lot of putting forth the traditions that we care about and the things that matter the most to us. Because I don't know about Dutch traditions. So if something comes up, I tell them, if there are traditions early on, if there are traditions you want me to, you know, be a part of you. I'll hold, you know, take the initiative on, like, let me know for the children or whatever it is. And and that communication is a bedrock, as you, Theo, know, of merit, of life. So it's been a beautiful thing and a challenging thing. But what in life, you know, that's good is not challenging. Absolutely. And it can be a real gift to your children to really grow up and home where we live in a, like a culture. And I'm just saying, like we're, you know, to to pass on that culture to your children and I and I understand this, by the way, my my wife is my wife is Mexican, and her family really grew up with a Hispanic culture. And I don't know if you can tell by looking at me, but I am not my original German. So, you know, I actually, I, I understand this and this is my experience as well, just wanting to make sure we raise our daughter to speak Spanish and to, you know, there's a lot of great things that come from mixing cultures, actually. It's very, very enriching. So I, I hear you and someone who who. That's my reality as well. Yeah. Have you. Where you had to. Well. I'm sure. How long have you been married for? In May of this. Of this year of 2026. It'll be five years. And so have you had many moments of communication along the way of those moments of, oh, that really matters to you, or is your wife pretty forthright about, like, these are the things that I really want to do in our family and with our children, because I find as I talk to a couple with different cultures, it's different for everybody. Yeah. No, she's been very forthright and transparent to say like, yeah, you know, I definitely just of of what's of what's important. And you know, so far there hasn't really been any big stumbling blocks or points. Maybe that's because when I was in the seminary, I studied some Spanish. So I actually have some kind of foundation to, to build off of because, you know, the language is part of the family is fairly bilingual and truthfully, truthfully, that I'm the one, not the one. But I also very much independently desire both the language and the culture to be something that our daughter experiences. So, you know, it's been, like I said, it's been a gift to me to, so but yeah. Yeah, no great question. Then there. Yeah, but, but that, that can be just such a big thing because there's so many unspoken assumptions or just like, you know, it's just an opportunity for learning and growth and expansion, but it really, really can be beautiful. Absolutely. Absolutely. So one of the things, too, is that your husband is from what can be seen on your YouTube channel and other content, your husband's really been a part of your mission with you. Yeah. One of the things you two have started is a dating app or a dating service. So I'd love to have you tell us both about that. But also, what is what's your take on just the dating scene? Within the church these days? Yeah, absolutely. So for your listeners who are out in the dating scene, some of your listeners might know someone in the dating scene. The dating culture has been very challenging over the years with the breakdown of communication between people. People can't even talk to each other anymore. We know this, the lack of commitment, people being so afraid to commit. There are so many issues that have permeated the dating culture, from the culture as a whole. Right? Are distracted, angry, whatever you want to call it. Culture. There's so many issues that we see and that's trickled in and it's trickled into the way so many people date, and there's a lot of frustration there, and there's a lot of hurt there. There's a lot of pain, there's a lot of struggle, there's a lot of loneliness there. So a couple years ago, I'll make a very long story short, I got a very silly idea. I really believe it was inspired by the Lord because I had, you know, I've been in ministry, gosh, over 15 years now. I'd have vents and retreats and just talking to people and walking with people. And I saw this struggle for singles to connect with one another. I mean, I went halfway around the world to meet this wonderful man. So people were just so where, where are the where the good people to meet? So I did something that I felt was very silly. I called it a matchmaking post and I put it on Instagram and I said, this is a matchmaking post. If you want to comment about yourself, go ahead. If you're single and you just want to say, this is the kind of guy I'm looking for, the kind of girl I'm looking for, go for it. And in the first 48 hours, there were over 6500 comments on that post. I had all of my friends calling me saying, what is this matchmaking thing I hear that you're doing? Like, I don't know, I don't know what's happening. I just thought it would be like an insane idea and like nine people would comment. So very, very long story short, over that'll be three years in August. Since I did the first one. There have been at this moment, I've tried to diligently keep track because it's getting out from under me. Now of over 20 married couples have come from the matchmaking posts. So we saw that. Now I looked at that. Unbelievable. Over 20 couples, three babies now, which is amazing. Unbelievable. Something I never thought could happen, but it really pointed to the bigger issue of singles. Need places to connect. They don't need places to date. We don't call Sacred Spark a dating app because it is not a place where you date. It's a place where you meet. It's a place where you can connect. So really, it's just this connection slot for where I can connect with great singles. But we got to thinking, there are so many problems with doing it on social media. Is it wonderful and amazing? Yes, but there are a lot of problems. You couldn't message someone if they weren't following you. And people have private profiles, and I'm the only one who can see all the comments when they're like nested and like, you know. Like clumped down. I'm the only one who can see everybody. So there were a lot of issues and we thought, let's make a place for young, Catholic singles to connect with one another. That's beautiful and modern and hopeful and upbeat. We want singles to know that there's hope, that there are people out there, and we're going to help you find them. And that's why we created Sacred Spark.. That that is fantastic. That's fantastic. What do you what when it comes to the dating world and just meeting and courtship, what is the challenge and what is what is what has gone on that has led to the rise in online dating, even to, you know, just the difficulty of meeting the people around. You know, I think I'm sure I know it's been a gift for so many people, of course, especially in your space. But like, what's made it more difficult, you know, for the people around us. Yeah. For sure. I think the difficulty often the difficulty is this fear of commitment. For people in person, I think there's a lot of different reasons why people just fear commitment in general in our culture, they're afraid to commit because the next best thing is always around the corner, right? You always say like, oh, I get to a roadblock in dating with someone. And I think, I should just give up. I'll go and find someone else. And that's just not the way it works in relationship, in life, in relating to one another, there's going to be obstacles. There's going to be roadblocks that you decide we're going to push through this. So that was a huge problem. And then I meet so many Catholics across America, across the world. We're not global yet, but who really they go to the events or they go to the things, or they live in a place where there's no events and everybody at church, right. The women who complement them are the Golden Girls there in their 90s, and they really like I'm 24, I'm the only 24 year old at this parish, and we want to give them an opportunity to meet someone great. And so that's a real issue too. Is this concentration of young Catholics can be prevalent in places like Texas or places like New York City. There are a number of cities that showed really strong, you know, numbers on sacred spark of people wanting to connect with someone else. But there's a lot of places in America where one of the big problems is that there's not very many people to date. So it's like, well, let's see if, you know, everybody has their opinions about online dating. But if we can connect people, you know, who are amazing, from Nevada to New York, who go to parishes where there's no young people, how awesome would that be? Yeah, yeah. How about it? Wow. And you mentioned to the fear of commitment. Yes. In Catholic spaces, you know, there's a whole. Oh, well, there's a shortage of vocations to the priesthood and religious life. There's a shortage of people getting married to because they're either not getting their either baptized Catholics who stopped practicing their faith. They're not getting married in the church, or again, they're just afraid of commitment. Right. So this fear of commitment is affecting the church across the board, regardless of the particular vocations. You are absolutely correct. You hit the nail on the head that fear of committing to something for life in a world of endless options and instantaneous everything, right? I think that's a two two fold problem is that there's endless options. So a man going to the priesthood, he thinks like, oh gosh, I don't know. I don't know if that would be right for me. What if, you know, what if it's not the right thing? Those questions that percolate, which are so real and part of the human condition, and then just that, that, that, you know, idea of everything needs to be immediate. And I need to know right away. Is this the one for me? Is the priesthood right for me? Is religious life right for me? Wherever you find yourself? And that typically isn't revealed instantaneously. And in this culture, a lot of people don't end up committing to something because they're not willing to go through the discernment process because we have Instant Pot, instant, this instant that DoorDash like, if the Wi-Fi isn't connecting in three seconds, we're annoyed. So of course it's like, oh my gosh, to go through a discernment process of eight years, like, whoa, I could never. But the Lord invites us really listen to my call and commit to something. Yeah, and I would suspect one thing. Now, first of all, the, you know, this recognition of the difficult commitment goes back to the gospel itself, right? Jesus, even, you know, in, in hammering, and hunkering down on what was original, right? It was a concession for the people of Israel that they could divorce under certain circumstances. Right. But Jesus said from the beginning it wasn't so. And even his apostles were like, well, then, you know, maybe it's better not to get married, right? And, you know, then Jesus says, well, not everyone has this, but for those who have, they ought to hear it. But so even then, right, all these issues we're dealing with, there's nothing new under the sun. But yeah, you have to think that the internet especially not I'm not talking about online dating, but just the internet and what it is done for us, our sense of expectation, our sense of instant gratification, and not only the internet, but the very problem we're trying to help with. Right? Pornography, this sense of there's always something out there, there's endless options. I have to have variety in my life, man. The damage that it must do. What we know it's damaging marriages. We know actually that from if you hear from annulment or, you know, tribunals across the country, the average of annulment is 50% that have something to do with the problem of pornography. So it's ruining marriages before it even starts. But now with the dating world, I mean, it's got it's doing what damage it's doing. I'm sure you've come across this as being a problem for in the dating world, both for individuals like, I mean, sometimes you'll hear from young ladies like, I can't even find a guy who doesn't watch it. Yeah, I'm sure I've heard that a few times. I'm sure you've heard that many times. I think that's a big lie that women believe, because so many people tell them that. And I really want to refute that lie, because I know there are men out there listening, both listening and not listening to this podcast who have either never been addicted to pornography or have overcome that and are not currently addicted to in their day to day life now. And I think it's insulting to those men when when people say to women, oh, you'll never find a man who doesn't watch that you'll never find a man who isn't addicted to that. It is insulting to the men who have really worked to exercise self-control, to cultivate virtue in their life. And, you know, quite frankly, I hate it. I hate when people say that to women because I know it's not true. I know there are men out there fighting the good fight. And that's what I say to women to they say to me, right at all these retreats and events that I walk with them at is am I is this this something of an I have to settle on? Like he just watches this and it's just a part of his life. And, you know, because the world says it's normal. I know you guys talk about this extensively at Covenant Eyes and is this just going to be it? Like, is there are there no options outside of that? And I tell these women, I say, you've been lied to. You really have been lied to because this isn't a problem for 100% of men. And there are good men out there, fighting the good fight, and they have this hope in their eyes. They're like, really? And I'm like, yes, really? You've been deceived. And I cannot stand that deception for all the men out there really trying to cultivate virtue and self-control in their lives. And that's and that's and you're speaking to the ones who have been able to break free entirely, you know, I mean, the other thing we realize is there's just a lot of good guys who, you know, maybe they're not there yet or they're making gradual progress or whatever. I mean, you know, that's not to say that they, they get a pass, but it is to say that, you know, this isn't always you're not always talking about someone who's who's a bad person, right? I mean, sometimes what he might, just might need, is a reason, you know, to be able to finally kick it. And and I guess I'm kind of biased on this, right? Because, you know, in my own experience, I struggled with this very much. And for me, it was getting married. It was a a relapse during the engagement, a discussion about it and seeing the pain in my fiancee and soon to be wife's eyes, but also the chance to go forward. Anyways, that got me to kick it. Is that the best path forward for everybody? No, but it saved me, right? Save me that. That's a beautiful testimony. Right? So everybody's journey is going to be different. But, but yeah, you know, you also made a good point too. Sometimes it's the women who are like, oh yeah, it's everybody. And then sometimes it's the women themselves being told this by other people. Yeah. For sure. And I think it's really important to get a sense of reality rather than painting with two broad of a brush in all things. I think we paint a way too broad of a brush and in a lot of different capacities. And that's one of them just to say like, well, you're gonna live with this because this is all the men you're going to meet, and it's just not true. There are men like you really striving to be holy, striving to, get right with the Lord each and every day on the journey. Right. It's. We're not at a final destination until we're dead on the journey to really strive there, which is such a beautiful thing. Thank you for sharing that. No. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think what you brought up was just a, a a good transition point because, you know, for, for a lot of men, this is a way of dealing with woundedness. And the reality is we all have that men, women, you know, young, old it's woundedness. Right. And that that kind of helps me transition into another thing I want to talk to you about. You recently wrote a book called Sincerely, Stoneheart. Yeah. Tell us about that. Yeah. Sincerely, Stoneheart is a a version modern version of Lewis C.S. Lewis Screwtape Letters for women. Many people have done spinoffs, as you would call them, of The Screwtape Letters. Since C.S. Lewis published it, people have been doing little ones here. Actual books. I am not the first one who said, like, oh, let's do a spinoff. But in my ministry with women, especially during the pandemic, when things quieted down and I was able to really think and really reflect on the last many years of ministry. I was pregnant with my second son during that time. He's amazing. And in pregnancy, you just, you know, spend a lot of time resting sometimes. And I got to rest and think. And I thought, man, women's lives are dominated by fear and sorrow and discouragement in so many ways. Why is that? And I started getting to the why the spiritual warfare of the enemy at every turn, trying to destroy every woman that I saw along the way. This is true for both men and women, but much of my work has been with women. And so I started writing these these letters, these letters from the demon, Stoneheart. So it's a, you know, Screwtape Letters is life of one ordinary man, and mine is an ordinary woman in the modern age, in the way that the enemy works to destroy women with fear and discouragement and sorrow and insecurity and distraction. And I unpack that throughout 42 letters in the book for every woman of every age. There are all different kinds of topics that I talk about. Some will relate to women more than others. Some women will find that it's about their sister or their mom or their experience. And there are probably hundreds at this point, of groups of women walking through Sincerely, Stoneheart together all across the world, which is such a gift. That that's fantastic. What are some of the ways you think the evil one tries to attack women, versus the ways he tries to attack men? We're we're obviously different and and God made us that way. But you know, the the evil one is well versed in theology. So one of the what do you think are the unique ways that he tries to go after men versus women? One of the letters. That and sincerely sonar can be read by men as well. Some of my priests friends, they said I read the book. I understand women so much more than before I started reading. So this book is really of men. If any of your listeners want to understand women sincerely, Stoneheart, I think is a great way to do it. One of the biggest lies, that women are taught from a very early age is that our fatality is a needless cross, right? When you look at a little girl, if we're really going to get into it, I'll be really open and honest. When girls are taught about their periods, they're taught that it's just many of them don't want to paint with two broad brush here. Many of them are taught that it's just this needless cross that you carry. It's just this horrible, inconvenient thing that happens to you just because they're not taught like this, like this happens to you because you have a powerful thing called fertility. And throughout, like, and this this is a powerful thing. That's the reason the world can continue on and throughout our lives. We really this messaging that I really believe is spiritual warfare, we can you know, we could really unpack this if we look at, you know, where it's been brought to today, this lie in this messaging, women are taught that is this thing that needs to be suppressed or fixed or just like, gotten rid of all together and that that's going to solve their problems in life. So as a woman grows, she's taught to fear motherhood, right? The enemy really has snuck in to say, fertility is a burden. You need to get rid of it because children are a punishment, right? Children are a punishment. If you have children, right, it'll ruin your life. And these messages are so sly to women. You should fear this. You should not want to be a mother. We see it in the culture, right, with abortion, with the problem of worship today is motherhood is horrible and you should just do anything you can to avoid it. And that messaging I really believe and as I've walked with women, is so interwoven into the experience of many women from the time that they're small all the way to the time that they're, you know, older, and it's either a great revelation from the Lord for them to realize, oh my gosh, I've been lied to all of this time. It's being evangelized by friends and loved my friends to say you've been lied to this whole entire time. Or them just discovering it on their own to say, like, I, have been, you know, lied to in so many ways. I've always seen my fertility as this horrible thing. Motherhood is this horrible thing. Like, wait a second. And that revelation is very powerful. So I think that's a that's an experience for women, that men haven't dealt with their whole lives. Wow. Yeah. And you're right. I mean, it's such a gift. It's the thing that makes you woman, you know, and come up with so many solutions for a non problem, you know, and there it's horrible. Abortion, contraception. And it's, it's and then and then of course, you know, once you start with that second one there, then you're into pornography and you're into every, every way of trying to use our sexuality except for, you know, except for, you know, procreation and the one plus union within marriage. But, yeah. Yeah, the evil one's done a really good job with that, Oh. My gosh, he works day. And night. Doggedly to to to warp sexuality. As we know. I know as you talk about on covenant I to warp it, to twist it, to make it everything that the Lord never intended it to be. And that's true for both men and women to fall prey to those lies. And really, it's a beautiful gift when you come to realize what's actually true, what sexuality is designed and meant for, in the union between men and women, what a woman's fatality is for whether she ever gets married or not. Like the beauty of that part of who we are as women who it's, the enemy's done good work. But I think that there's a lot of people doing even better work to tell people what's true and to bring the truth. Absolutely. Now, another one that might not seem directly related, but I think it's very related is, I think father Mike Schmitz put it. Well, there's somewhere where he said something like, you know, when a man's growing up, he needs to be told, especially by his dad, hey, you can do it. Because his greatest fear is that he's not able. And then a woman needs to. Her greatest fear might be you're not lovable. You know, and you need to be told a woman needs to have it made clear, like, yes, actually, you're worth being loved. You're worth me being here with you. Does this come up in the book at all? This idea? Yeah. The idea. Of how do you approach it? I think that there's those two sides of the coin and beloved ness. Like a man. A young boy feels beloved when his dad says, I'm proud of you, right? I'm not going to, you know, just sideline mothers. I'm a part of every moment of my children's days. But young men, they need their dad to say, I'm proud of you. You can do it. You're amazing. And on the other side of the coin, women that that idea of. Beloved, there's a letter in the book called looking for the keys. And I don't know if you've had this experience, Theo, but when you're trying to go somewhere, you need to make somewhere on time and you can't find your car keys. Have you ever been through that in your life? Yep, yep. And I equate this for women to our search for beloved ness. You are frantically. You're like, oh my gosh, I lost my keys. Where are they? And you're looking all over the house and you're running all over the place trying to get to this appointment. You're looking in your coat pocket and you're looking, you know, in your bags and this and that, and I and I in this book, in the in the letter, looking for the keys, I equate that to the way the enemy wants women to search for their beloved, to say, my beloved, this is not with me. I lost it somewhere along the way, it's gone and I need to frantically look for it everywhere in accolades, in my appearance, in men, in my work, in so many different things. So we're frantic. And then how many times have we been frantically looking for something and we realize like, oh, it was in the car, or oh, it was in my pocket. My sister, when I was talking about this with her once, she said I did that. I was like looking everywhere and the keys were in my pocket. And so in that letter, I say she doesn't realize that the keys were in her pocket the whole entire time, and she was turning over the whole house looking for her beloved ness. But it was always there because she's always been beloved. And that's how I explore. Like the concept of a woman's true, inherent beloved ness as a woman, I hope I'll say this. And if we're looking at two sides of the coin, I hope that a man will write a book like this for men, because I think it would be an amazing I know the The Screwtape Letters was specifically about a man, but it could apply to everyone. But I think in the modern day there are, you know, looking at the struggles of men, specifically masculinity. I think it would be really cool if someone did this for men. But it's a it's a labor of love of a lifetime. So I don't know who would be willing to undertake it. Yeah. Well, so what does a woman need to not lose track of her beloved ness? I think to be told. So I was raised by an amazing dad. My dad is an amazing person, and my whole life I like the value of fatherhood. Mothers are incredible. Again, I'm a mother, right? I don't want anybody. Like she said, mothers like don't matter at all. The value of a father cannot be overstated, and in my own life, my dad always looked at me and and let me know how much he loved me, that that he was always there. He wasn't going anywhere, that whatever I wanted to do in life, he would be there to support me. Right? I think there's a difference between telling someone you can do anything in life, and I believe in you, right? That's an amazing thing to say. But my dad had the side of the coin where that was true, but it was also, you can do anything in life and whatever it is, I'm there to support you. I will be there every step of the way. And I think understanding that, beloved, because that's what God the Father says to us, whatever. Like I will be there, you know Jesus, behold, I will be with you always until the end of the age. In the mystery of the Trinity, the father, son, and Holy Spirit. But my father always looking at me and saying, you are so loved, you can do anything and I will be there to support you every step of the way. I always believed that I was beloved and it really came from a little girl wanting that from her father. Wow. Yeah. And as a father of a daughter, that definitely resonates with and as a guy who you're blessed to have had an amazing dad. Me too. But, you know, I mean, there's so many people we know who can't say the same, unfortunately. Yeah. You know, but. It can. The story can always change. My mom grew up in a very broken family, and she was one of the people who decided, the buck stops here, and I'm going to have a family that's happy and holy and beautiful and everything that my own family was not. So for all your listeners out there, there are so many amazing people, and I hope that if that's your experience listeners out there, you get to meet them one day. A person who said my upbringing was horrific and I decided that that won't be my the won't be the story for my family. And I want to build a family that's beautiful and uplifting and rooted in faith. And that's something my mom did. And I'm proud of her every single day for it. She's amazing. And just like with the with the power of the Holy Spirit, she always has the Holy Spirit. Like teach me how to have a loving, beautiful family because I that wasn't modeled for me. Like, I don't know what that looks like. And the Holy Spirit was with her every step of the way. That's amazing when someone makes that decision. One of the things I've realized, though, is that that is a decision that has to be repeated a lot, because being in community with people, being in marriage and family, one of the things you realize is that, the things that cause us pain, like family, is a place where those things are brought to the surface, right, and revealed in us. And so they come forward and then, you know, that whole, oh, I'm not going to be like this person or whatever. Well, that's the moment when you have to decide, like, okay, I'm triggered. My woundedness has become aware to me. Oh, I'm tempted to. That's when you get to realize like, oh, okay, now I have to learn how to handle this differently. And if you do it, that's when that's when you can heal the family tree. Otherwise you will be like that person you decided not to decided not to be like, So Ruth, yo, it is a daily decision that takes really the power of the Lord, right? I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. It's it's become so trite. It's on tote bags and mugs and shirts and all different kinds of stuff. But if we look at really look at reality, the daily decision is saying, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, and I can rewrite the story and I can make sure the buck stops with me on a daily basis. Is it challenging? Yeah. But does it make sense also? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Now, this kind of helps me transition to another thing. I just wanted to make sure we, we hit on, you know, I realized part of the thing with when it comes to wounded is ultimately comes from mismatch expectations. Right. And, and I was actually doing another interview about this recently, right. Where, you know, sons and daughters can be hurt when they have a parent who is physically present but not emotionally present. And for the longest time that had different ways to look. But now, you know, we've got these. So I talked to me about and I was watching a clip of you talking with our friend Lyla Rose about this. But talk to us about how this is now a factor and can affect, you know, parenthood, even marriage or dating, like, oh, talk to talk to us about this. For sure. So for all you listeners listening, not on video. Theo's holding up his phone this great. Oh, yes. Pull that. We. Gosh, that has become such a suck to be inside the portal. So I have a couple. I packed this pretty deeply and some people thought I went too much into it in the book, but I just really wanted to see people, to see in the way that I saw how their phone is actually literally destroying them. And they could read the whole thing and like, feel apathetic. Like, I know my phone is destroying me and I don't really care. But I met a lot of women who say, I gave up social media forever. I got a flip phone after I read your book. I had this Barbie pink flip phone this guy showed me, and I'm just done with all of the destruction of it. So there's a letter that changed my life. It's a letter ten. It's called Hold On. And I explored all the ways that, you know, I would be looking at something or whatever on my phone. And I really imagined, I really imagine Theo when I was old and my children were older and my children having memories of me when they were small. And I came to this big revelation that if I was always on my phone, if I was always looking at something, reading something, their memories of me from their childhood would be me staring at my phone, not playing with them, not be holding them, not having fun with them. It would be me on my phone. And another revelation that I had was the line in the book that said her children don't understand what her device is or does, but they certainly know that it's more important than they are. And this is something that, as I've talked about these things with women who say, like, I just can't break my addiction to my phone, I just can't get off of it. I'm like your children. They see it and they think, oh, that I don't know what she's doing, but I'm less important than that thing. And how heartbreaking that is, how painful that is. But this is not just for parents, right? How do you want your children to remember you? Do you want them to remember you just being on your phone, like, all the time? Is that how you really want your children to remember their childhood? Hopefully not. But if we look at the scope for all people, this ready distraction is there for us all the time. I wrote a post recently for wives and I said, what if the reason you're unsatisfied in your marriage is because of your phone? Your husband is the same. He looks the same. He. Of course, we're all growing as people, but we look at the sameness of a person. Like, if I wake up every day, like we're pretty similar, but your phone offers you endless new things, new things, new things, new things, new things, new things all the time. And your brain is rewired. All of us, right? This is true for someone who's married. It's true about your friends or your family or whoever you spend time with. They're the same, and your mind craves something new. I want something new. I want something new. I want something new. Right? You talked about the problem of watching pornography. New things all the time. I wasn't any new all the time. So I'm bored with this person. I'm so many with so many women, so many men. They're bored with their spouse because their brain has been rewired to want new things all the time. So maybe the problem with your marriage, or when your friendships or your relationships is this rewiring of your mind to want new things, to be bored with the things that are very much the same when the reality is that marriage is not boring. It's a process of amazing growth with another person. We've been rewired and it's a big problem. And like you, you see people say, like, we all went out to dinner and everybody put their phones in the middle, and the first person who picks it up has to pay the bill. And I think, like, is this really where we are that we have to have this mechanism by which we will not pick up our phones when we're out with other people. We just don't have the self-control to just leave it in our pocket or leave it in our bag and be done with it. Another thing I talk about is like the culture within a home, of what people have allowed technology to do within their home, and what I tell people, it's never too late if people are out there and they have children with screens or whatever, like it's never too late to say we didn't intend for screens to dominate our lives in this home this much, and we're going to make changes. It's never too late to do that. But this distraction and this rewiring has really wrecked our minds and our hearts and our spirits in a lot of different ways. Do you think that's true? Like, have you seen that in your own life or in the lives of friends, people you know and talk to? Yeah. And I'm not I'm not perfect at this would not actually be putting it all the way as accurately as it needs to be. I mentioned one struggle that I was able to kick, but there's another one that not so much like. Oh, man, it's so easy just to be to be hooked, you know, and especially like, you know, I was already somebody that if I, I don't know, I'm sitting around a group of people and they're having a conversation and I'm not like, you know what I like? I, I would already be inclined to check out or whatever, but or like if I wasn't being, you know, invited really to participate. Now we have this like, you know, wow. So, so easy. So yeah. No, I get it. And you're right, it's so easy because another thing, you mentioned that word beholding like, even when I'm around my daughter, I hate to say it right. Like it's she'll be playing with these things and I'm like, what? Even, you know, like, how do I even get into this? Right? But even if it was just the value of like, hey, I'm here, you know, but so, so yeah, you know, I see her getting playing with certain things and I'm like, oh, okay. Well all right. You know, it's it's so, so incredibly easy. And yes, you're right to answer the question. I mean, we may very well be at the point where we need to put in these mechanisms or whatever. I certainly need to. So yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. My question for you, as. Someone. Who explored this. Deeply in my own life is, is that how you want your daughter to remember you when she's old? And that's my question for all parents. Like I asked moms, like, I just can't break it. And I'm like, is that how you want her to remember you? Or is that how you want him to remember you when he's old? And so here's some practical things. I'm a very practical person. Oh, yes. I was going to. Ask you if I am not on my phone or on my children, like, at all anymore, and if I am, if I need to message someone, I explain to them what I'm doing. They call my mom Tita, right? So I say I have to message Tita right now. That's what I'm going to be doing on my phone. We're going to send her a message to see if we can come over today. Or I'm ordering the groceries. So I tell them I'm ordering the groceries. If you want to come over, you can see what you know, tell me what you want and then we can order that. And other than that, I strive 100% to not have my children see me on my phone. That takes great discipline. It takes great intentionality. But after I wrote letter ten. Hold on, I was like, I'll never be the same. I don't want my children to remembering me like that. I don't want to be the mom who's always like, hold on, hold on, hold on, because I'm reading some stupid comment section. Or just like watching people fight with each other or watching a video, that doesn't matter. I'm telling my own children who God is. And trust me, you can tell I'm passionate about this. My own children who God has entrusted me with. Hold on, because this video matters more than you. Who am I? What is this? What am I doing right? You. You come to this like crux as I wrote that letter of like, this is ridiculous. And I need to change now. And so those are some of the things that I've implemented in my life to make sure that that's not how they remember me is me saying, hold on and never be holding their beautiful, amazing, incredible faces and eyes. Especially looking in our children's eyes is such a gift. Yeah, yeah. And I get it. Like, you know, the fact that our phones always giving us something new, you know, our brains are wired to watch for that, right? But that meant watching for, like, for for lions and tigers. You know, who might run into our, you know, our, the tribe and all of the tents that we sent a set up. Right. Not like, you know. Oh, did this person comment on my post or whatever or. Yeah. Yeah, but that's what that's what it's turned into. Absolutely. And yeah. Yeah, it's for sure. Just say no to comment sections. You could spend your whole life reading people arguing with each other. Just say no. Or have or being one of the people in the argument. Exactly. It's a waste of your life. It's a waste of your life. You will never, never get someone to change their mind. So through an Instagram comment section. That one thing I also wanted to be sure we hit on is we talked about, you know, pornography being a men's problem. One of the things we've become more aware of at Covenant Eyes is that women are struggling to more and more. That's why we came up with our A rise program, actually, where Beth Davis leads the viewer through 21 days of videos and reflections and readings, which is meant to be a, a, you know, a woman's version of our essentially of our strive program done by Matt. Brad, have you seen this coming up more and more since you work a lot with women? Yes, I absolutely have. Over the years, many women feel very ashamed, obviously, because they feel like they're struggling alone. And to those women, I say, you're not struggling alone. It's a lie that you are the only one that deals with this. Beth Davis, who created the A rise program with Covenant Eyes, is one of my closest friends, an amazing lady. I cannot encourage that program enough for women who are struggling with this to go in and let Beth lead you and guide you. Her heart is so compassionate. It's so loving. And she wants to hold your hand as a sister in love and guide you every step of the way. But yes, I've seen this problem because it's so readily available to anyone and women really feel like I am alone and I tell them you are not alone. You are not the only one who struggles with this, and there are people who want to help you, right? That was the problem for a long time is the solution was you're not alone. Let's talk about this. But for so long, people hadn't identified that this was a problem for women too. So there weren't resources like a rise out there available for women to get into, to, to break free. So that's why I'm so grateful to Covenant Eyes for for seeing the need for this and the intention of not leaving women in a place where it's like, oh, good, I know that I'm not alone. Okay. But like, what do I do now? You have offered them a what do I do now? And I think it's an amazing thing for women to have resources like this, to break free, to live in freedom every step of the way. Thank you for saying those kind words about our program. Yeah, and that was something I thought of when I heard you say in some context, or even earlier in this interview, where, you know, some of your priest friends will read the Sincerely, Stoneheart book because they need to be able to understand women and womanhood. You know, with this being one of the most confessed sins and the confessional, they definitely need to be. Well, first of all, should they should have access to the program on hand. But second of all, they just now this is going to be something that our church leadership is going to who actually I work primarily with. And my role here is going to need to understand because, you know, the the opportunity to either add to that woundedness like, oh, you're struggling with a man's problem or whatever, or really be of help is on the line, right? When when this is brought forward, whether in the confessional or some other context. But you're right, there's not a lot out there. So, I mean, the church definitely needs to really be prepared for this. You are absolutely right. And I think Covenant Eyes is doing an amazing job of helping the church be prepared. I love that you're working with clergy because it's true. If a woman is dismissed in the confessional for that sin, she wants to just even like talk about it, you know, in any way, shape or form and how that's like that's choosing to sin in that way is affecting her. To be dismissed is a terrible thing, right? In anything in life, to be dismissed as a terrible thing, or to have that passed off as a man's problem for a woman to be seen, whether in the confessional or just like at a retreat after a women's event, to be seen, to be loved in that moment, to be beheld in that moment, for the struggle that she's facing is a real big gift that someone can give to her in her struggle, so that she knows that she's not alone, that the Lord sees her, and the Lord loves her, especially through the Sacramento Confession. You know, that's a good point, too. We're also coming to the kind of realization, and it's a big part of our work to to, you know, to help the church understand that men can't simply be dismissed either, you know, because a lot of times, man or woman, you know, this is a coping mechanism for, you know, deep woundedness, that that came from all kinds of places and sources. You know, I mean, real healing has to unpack all of that because so that it can find not only healthy coping mechanisms, but it often involves lies that we believe about ourselves. You know, we say that addicts believe a lot of lies about themselves, but they probably got to that place because they already believed lies about themselves. So, I mean, that's a lot of work that needs to be done. But you're right. We can't we can't really be dismissive about any of these things, because if we're being dismissive of a wounded person, we're being dismissive, really, of Christ. That is a mic drop. If we are being dismissive of a wounded person, we are being dismissive of Christ. Right. The the Good Samaritan, it was you know, it's a story for us all to say, like, are we helping the wounded person, whatever those wounds look like, whether they're physical, whether they're in the heart. Right. If we dismiss. Right, the the man along the road. Right. We're dismissing Christ, and there's hope in Christ. He is charged us all with the responsibility to help us, to help one another in our woundedness, to walk alongside one another in our own individual woundedness. And that's a beautiful, holy, hard, incredible thing. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, Emily, I've really, really enjoyed this conversation. It's been wonderful. Wonderful to talk with you. What kind of number one, just any closing thoughts you would want to leave our audience with? And then number two, where can they connect with you and your work? Yeah. I just want to leave you with a message of hope. Hope is is really found in Jesus. It's not found in anything else. And I know that sounds trite and also like something you can put on a mug. Hope is found in Jesus. But really, if you really enter into the hope that is in Jesus Christ standing with Him on Calvary, going into the resurrection, it really changes everything, right? If people want to connect with me, you can go on Sacred Spark. If you're Catholic and single, we would love to have you. There are thousands and thousands of amazing Catholic singles on Sacred Spark, messaging and, like, connecting is totally free. We have video calling, which is totally free, which is amazing, and we're just excited to see what happens. You can also find my book Sincerely, Stoneheart, any where books are sold. So if you want to read it as a man, if you're a woman, you want to tell your mom, your sister, your friend. I would love that. We want as many women being freed from the lies as possible. There's also a group discussion guide, so if any of your listeners would want to hop into that and if that my website, EmilyWilsonMinistries.com, it's totally free. And for you. So Theo, thanks for your time. Thanks for sharing parts of your story, your heart and who you are with these listeners and just people in your day to day life every step of the way. Well, thank you for those kind words, Emily. Thank you for all the work you've done to build up the church. Sincerely, Stoneheart is a that's a resource that, you know, parishes should really get and have study groups over since you made the guide for it as well. That's fantastic. Well thank you, thank you. Emily, thank you to our listeners for listening to this episode of the Covenant Eyes podcast. Again, please like, subscribe, share, leave comments. Even though we don't want to live in the comment section, please, please leave a comment because it is good for the algorithms and we want Covenant Eyes as well as our message to get out before everybody as well as these great products, both Sincerely, Stoneheart and Sacred Space to get in front of as many people as possible. So again, Emily, thank you so much to for joining us today. And thank you everyone for listening to this episode of the Covenant Eyes Podcast. I'm Theo McManigal. God bless you.