Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Covenant Eyes podcast. We're so glad to have a wonderful new friend joining us today on the podcast. Caroline, how are you today? Thanks for coming. Oh, thank you so much for having me, Karen, I appreciate it. I'm really delighted to be here. Yeah. We'll share it with our listeners a little bit about the work that you do. And let's dive into your you have a new book out, if I'm not mistaken. I do, yes I do. Well, my name's Caroline. I always joke with folks I was I get Caroline, Caroline, I say it's like the Neil Diamond song if you've heard it. And usually people are like, oh yeah, yeah, that song. Caroline Beidler and I love to introduce myself as a woman in recovery. For me, that means I'm a woman in recovery from addiction, for mental health challenges. And God has brought me through some really intense struggle and trauma and hardship to be living a new, transformed life today. And I am so passionate about talking about recovery because I want other people to experience that freedom and joy. I'm also a wife and a mother, so I live in eastern Tennessee with my family. I have twins blessings from God in recovery along with my husband. So I'm just I'm very grateful today because I know what life is like on the other side of that freedom. And it can be really challenging. And so, you know, you might see a little MSW after my name. I decided in my recovery to go back to school to learn how to be more equipped to serve specifically women, but folks to help folks learn what addiction is, how we can break free from it. And my new book really centers on that conversation for family members. That's amazing. So Caroline, tell us a little bit. So how did God call you to this. How long have you really felt like, well, I need to do ministry in this area. Yeah. Thank you for asking that question, Rob. I really appreciate that. Well, there was a moment that I go back to my mind when folks asked me that because, you know, I had struggled with addiction. I started really early using substances. I think my first drink was at nine years old and quickly developed from like 11, 12, 13, 14, a really significant substance use disorder or addiction to alcohol and other drugs. And, you know, a lot of trauma didn't grow up in a Christian home, you know, a lot of brokenness in my story. But fast forward, I became a Christian. Someone asked me if I wanted to know Jesus, and I was like, yeah, I, I'm all in because I don't like thy life. And the way it's been going. And we have this saying in recovery, gift of desperation. I've had many of those in my young life. And so, you know, I became a Christian and still struggled, though, and still struggled with finding that freedom. And it wasn't until my late 20s when I connected with a recovery community and my faith started growing, and I learned about my identity and who I am in Christ, that I really just felt God being like, you know what? I'm going to use your story. And I love that verse in 2 Corinthians. Or Paul talks about, you know, the comfort that we've received from God. We are then able to comfort others, and God just does this amazing thing through the hard parts of our story. And so I felt that deeply. But there's a moment when, you know, late 20s and I was mentoring this young woman, similar to how I had been a decade prior, who was struggling, who had experienced the same kind of trauma and hardship, and she ended up passing away from an opioid overdose. And, I think I was working in like a summer camp. And I just remember, you know, locking myself in this bathroom stall crying. And I just felt God's God's like hand and his peace and just this presence and this idea of, you're going to be spending your life for this. Like this girl's name. Her name was Alex. And I could have been Alex, you know? And I just felt like this piece around. Okay. God. Like, this is what I'm going to do now. What that's looked like has shifted. And I'm a mother now. And, so a lot of what I do is from home writing books and doing things that I can be more present with my family. But I've done a lot of different things from starting a nonprofit recovery home to I do a lot around women's leadership in like recovery advocacy, and so helping to develop other women leaders to serve in their local communities. I've done a whole number of things, but yeah, that was the moment losing Alex and too many families have lost loved ones. I think that's a huge motivator for a lot of us in this space too. But, yeah, that is definitely when I felt God's call. Thank you for sharing a little bit of your background and your testimony that that's really powerful. And I think that really helps to shape the work that you're doing now. And, and the book that you've written. And I'd like to talk a little bit about that resource, because I think it's something that our listeners and people that might just stumble on this podcast, will definitely be interested in and could be very beneficial to them. Yeah. Well, you know, the book, when you love someone in recovery, I'm just in my mind, I'm kind of going back to the moment when that when the book started and I started research and things for it, but I was headed out to our churches recovery ministry. And my twins, who are seven now, were about three at the time. And, you know, I said, well, mommy's going to recovery meeting. And my son turned to me and said, what's recovery? And, you know, and his sweet little voice with his big brown eyes and it just it was one of those questions that just hit my heart because I knew I was going to need to have those conversations at some point. Now, my book is not geared for kids. Maybe at some point, you know, there will be that, that resource too. But what I really went on is this journey, and I felt God leading me to explore what what is recovery? How do we share that with our loved ones? Because I know what it is. I've experienced it, I've gone through it. But how do family members understand? You know, when I first started dating my husband to he's only known me as a person in recovery. So at first he was a little taken back. Like, you know, you're sober, you're in like, what is this thing? You know, he and he came to, you know, he loves it now. He loves me. But he was like, I really would have benefited from a resource like the book that I have now, because I had no idea. I thought it meant, you know, meetings in church basements with, you know, super like a hat on, and you didn't want anybody to see you. And you know that it was something to hide and something that people were ashamed of. But I've helped him understand through us going on this journey together. And part of what the book does is really highlights what recovery is all about. You know, yes, it can be about meetings, but it's about so much more. And, you know, when we think about Scripture, talking about us becoming new creations in Christ, I think recovery is a process. We become new creations in Christ. But recovery is a way that we learn how to walk in that identity. So for me, it was learning about my physical health. I talk about that in the book mental Health, certainly spiritual health and spiritual formation. It's also about like learning about the importance of community and fellowship. You know, I had spent so many years as a very traumatized, broken person. I was terrified to talk to. I would never in the situation we're in now, you know, microphones and talking with, you know, I couldn't even I couldn't even talk to people in the grocery store. I mean, I had so much shame. And so being able to share with my family and share with others, you know, recovery is not just meetings. It's not just stopping something. It's learning about all the things that we need to start. We need to connect in community. We need to have this type of fellowship. So I really try to explore different pillars of recovery so that families have a more like holistic picture of what the journey is about. And then I move on from there to talk about, okay, so here's what it is. What are some practical ways that we can show up and support people, whether they're in recovery or still struggling with addiction? Yeah, yeah, we get those questions a lot. How do I help somebody that's struggling in this? Do you have some safeguards in there or a few things you could share for those that are trying to help somebody in recovery? There's got to be some there's struggles with that sometimes. What are some of the safeguards or steps, practical steps you can share with people who are trying to help somebody that's in recovery? Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I think one of the things, you know, our loved ones want to usually show up and help, right. But it takes time, I think, for like the family and whether that's addiction to alcohol, other drugs, pornography, digital devices, you know, we all got our cell phones, right. Whatever the thing is, like, generally our loved ones want to show up in support, but it's hard to know what to do to help and what might be harmful. And I think there's been a lot of conversation, especially in addiction treatment, over the past couple of decades, that when you love someone or show up and help, you're enabling them. So, you know, the most helpful thing would be to set up the firmest boundary you can. Don't answer the call. Don't, you know, set up all these rules and don't, don't, don't, don't. Right. But we don't always have the this is what you can do. And so I talk a lot in my book about boundaries. I synthesize a lot of excellent resource from Doctor Cloud and Townsend, a book called Boundaries. And I, I really kind of walk families through how to sell, set healthy boundaries and then those things you can do one of the most important things being, listen, you know, we I think humans, we all like to overcomplicate things sometimes. And when I think about the one of the most impactful times, my family showed up for me when I was struggling, I was a teen, I had left home. My parents were basically, you know, done with me. They didn't know how to show up or love me. But there was one day that my dad came to this place that I was staying, this rundown place. And, you know, I walked out of the the apartment and I'll never forget, you know, he just had this really loving look. And, it was it was years ago, but I still remember. And he picked me up and he took me grocery shopping, which I desperately needed food. And he took me out for lunch. And I remember he was asking me about things like, you know, what hopes I had for my life. And, and I felt so much like he was treating me like a human being. And we had a lot of hurt, and I had hurt them deeply by my actions and because of my addiction and my choices. But it was so simple actions of showing up, providing for some of my basic needs, listening, showing me that I was still lovable. I was still someone worth loving, right? Because I felt a lot of shame and worthlessness. And so when our loved ones are struggling, I think we can think about like, what are some small actions, simple things that we can do to show up. Maybe that's texting every morning, maybe that's providing encouragement, even if it's hard to see the good your loved ones doing. You know, we can all pick out what's not good, but some of those small actions and then listening, you know, asking those open ended like, how can I support you today? Or, you know, I've noticed maybe you're a little irritable, like just I want you to know I'm here. There's something you want to talk about. So kind of framing things like that. And I think the last thing I want to say to is when we can't do that because I think loved ones and I'm an affected family member, too. We have a lot of pressure on us, like our loved ones, the one who's struggling. Right. But we have to like we have to show up and we have to figure it out and we have to do all these things. But do we do we have to do that alone? And so I think one of the things I always tell family members is if you're having a hard time loving your person who's hurt you. It's okay. Like, don't carry that extra burden. We can lean on Jesus when we're struggling with that, and we can lean on our communities. We can lean on our faith communities and our small group and those friends and family that are closest to us. And I think one of the things that prevents us from doing it is that stigma and the shame that still surrounds it. But that's that's not what God has for us in this. God wants his light shown all over it, right? And that's why I love the work that you all do. Like, let's bring it out into the open, because when it does, it will not have a stronghold like it does when it's in the dark. And so if family members are struggling with loving, like, let's just, let's do that together and let's do it as a community. That is the amazing wisdom. And I know there are going to be so many people that are touched by that. And, you know, often I think that's kind of a little bit of an overlooked area that, you know, now that I'm thinking about all the work that we do, there are those family members who are supporting the person, and we often talk a lot about the spouse, you know, of a, person that's going through pornography addiction or some other addiction, but there are a whole bunch of family members. There's usually a circle of influence around that person, and all of those people need support and need guidance and help on how to navigate walking alongside someone in recovery, not just the spouse, but, you know, other extended family, parents, sisters, brothers, uncles, aunts. So I am so excited that you have invested in writing this, because I think this is a really needed resource that I have not seen a ton of, you know, and I've been in this space a long time. So I'm just I'm really thankful for your work. Thank you. I appreciate that so much. And and right back at you, I think the work that, that you all are doing to and just highlighting like, we can do this together and we can provide that support and accountability. And it reminded me when I was doing research for this book, which I love, I love the research side of writing and, interviewing people and, you know, ticking out the book. I have a lot of stories from family members, but I talked to a mother who told me that when she was, her son was struggling with addiction. He was a teen, and in inpatient treatment, she was a part of a small group at her church. And the same time her son was in addiction treatment. There was another mother in the group whose daughter was going through cancer treatment. And she said, you know, while, this woman's daughter was going through this really horrible situation and the family, the small group did what we do, right? We brought all the meals, we got the meal train, we got the prayer chain, we got, you know, flowers and cards and all of these things. And she said, and I was sitting in the group thinking, but my son is sick to, you know, I need the support to. And I think it's a really powerful not to like a point a finger, anyone. But it's a powerful reminder that situations like addiction, no matter what type of addiction it is, we can show up in that same way. Like, imagine if, you know, imagine if there's a spouse struggling with porn addiction and there's, you know, their spouse and that small group comes around them and sends them flowers and does the prayer chain. And we got call outs, you know, in the service about like showing up for this family and like, let's really shine a light on it. But wow, how can we can show up in these really, just beautiful ways of, of pouring out love and grace over these issues. Right. And I think, you know, when we separate addiction from all of these other human struggles, it causes a lot of harm because it is just another human struggle, right? Sin struggle. Yeah. Brokenness. So, so anyways, it reminds me of that story when she said that it was like, who? Yeah. And it's made me think differently to about how I can show up with with people in my life when they're struggling with different things. That is so powerful. I brought. To my eyes, honestly, because I just think about, you know, there's so much stigma oftentimes in the church that, you know, when someone's going through recovery, it's different than, you know, all the other things that people are struggling with, you know, whether it's health or sickness or just other sins. And it's like, I, I think that is something so practical we could implement in our small groups, in our churches. And how many lives could that really touch and change if you were just there, if you just send flowers, if you know that family is struggling, I, I am so convicted. Thank you so much for sharing that story. It is beautiful. Oh my gosh. Well and innocent and amazing to how God works through not just stories but experiences when she she went through this hard thing, but she told the story of it and now I get to tell her story and hopefully it impacts and moves people like it's moving you, you know, and hopefully your listeners or folks are watching. But yeah, it's those ways that we can show up and it's like that extravagant love, you know, that Jesus shows us and that we can pass on. I mean, like, what an amazing gift we have the ability to do. And one of the I actually, I have it right here, but one of the verses that was just really in my mind as I've been not just writing the book, but having these conversations is around the prodigal son and just that, you know, and you all know that story, but just that moment when you know the father sees the son, but in Scripture it says, you know, he was still a long way off. And the father, like, runs to him. And I just think about what a and that had never struck me before, but that just that idea of and he was still a long way off. Like, we can still show that love and grace, not just to each other and the spouses and affected families, but to the people struggling with the addiction. You know, we can we can, we can just pursue them and just, you know, and I've I've experienced the only reason I am sitting here is because I've had people do that in my life and who just showered me with love and mentorship and, and discipleship and all of those things when I certainly didn't deserve it. But I was still a long way off. But they, they they just showered me with that love. So anyways, I've been thinking on that and just that story and just, how convicting that has been for me to throughout, you know, as I've been talking about this book. Yeah. No that great. That story is great just to remind us that there's so many people around us in the church or outside that are hurting, that are in trauma, that, just need help. We may not see it. We may not know. You touched on the church a little bit. And of course, we here at Covenant Eyes work with the church day in and day out and what we find. And I'm not down on the church at all, but a lot of churches really struggle with how to see people, how to help, those that are in trauma or addictions, so many churches that really are afraid to, to wander into that. But yet we really need to be a healing church. We need to address these things. And you talked about the community and people coming alongside. Have you had much experience with talking with the church, with pastors about how can they begin to step into helping people that are in addiction or trauma or hurting? I love that question. I've actually worked with a couple churches and I don't like blasted on social media. I always say like the work that I love is you'll never see me talk about it on Instagram. But one of the things I've had the opportunity to do is work with churches and kind of figure out how, how do you create a recovery ministry, you know, what do you do? And I think there is such a beautiful one of the things, I mean, I love recovery, but one of the things I love about it is most of us who are, you know, further along in the journey, have this call on our life really to give back in some way. And so I think and, you know, if we know that most families and most churches, there are people in recovery and struggling with addiction all over the pews, all over the gyms and the sanctuaries. And, but there are so many of us who are just waiting to be sent out into congregations. This isn't something that necessarily has to, like, drain a budget, right? Most of us in recovery will willingly volunteer to show up and help. And so how do we mobilize people in our churches who are impacted by addiction or in recovery to then turn around? And like I shared, you know, provide comfort to others through the comfort that we've received. And so I think it's a matter of similar to how other ministries, you know, develop. But having champions, having people who are in the church and really starting with that group of people who are personally impacted and have that lived experience because, wow, something powerful happens when we're then able to share that with others. And I live in eastern Tennessee now in a small town, and there's a church that has been able to start a recovery ministry. And it's I mean, I was just there and, I'm going to get Terry thinking about it, but that room is packed. Yeah. You know, and a couple years ago, a couple of people sat in a room around a circle of chairs and were dreaming with God about what it would look like. And now, I mean, packed. And what's so interesting is that. Sorry, I'm getting emotional thinking about it. So many people in the church are now coming to that space who aren't in recovery, but who have heard how beautiful and how free and just how amazing this community is. And, and I've heard repeatedly people say you can just feel Jesus in that space and not in some kind of, like, charismatic way, right? Nothing wrong with that. But in just a very real, like, very real way. And so, yeah, I think the, the one of the most helpful things faith leaders can do if you're like, hey, I feel moved to do this. We know that our faith communities impacted is connect with someone with lived experience and see what God will do with that. That's great wisdom right there. I love that. And I think, you know even just having the conversations to like we need to talk about this topic and other topics in this space more frequently in our small groups and churches so that it becomes normal because, you know, in some places it still feels, you know, some churches it still feels a little taboo to talk about, you know, recovery or, you know, someone struggling with substance abuse or their past life, you know, where they were involved in things. And we need to actually make that normal because those are our testimonies. Those are the ways that God has taken what was broken and made something beautiful. And we need to pass that forward and pass that on to people that need that. So I just I hope that there are people listening that, you know, take that wisdom and implement that. And I know that pastors have a heart to do it. It's often the fear of starting a program who will run it. But like you said, there are people on the benches just waiting to be called up. So all we need to do is lay out that invitation. So I'm really excited that you were able to share that. Well, as we kind of bring today's episode to a close, I want to make sure that our listeners can connect with you. They can get the new book, and maybe if you have a website or some other places that they can connect with, the resources that you provide, I would love to share that with them. Yeah, absolutely. I would love to connect is my favorite thing. I mean, I love writing books, but connecting with folks is the best. So you can find me on Substack. I have a newsletter I send out once a week. It's and it's called Circle of Chairs. So if you envision a recovery space or a support group space, we know what it feels like to sit in a circle of chairs. It can be very vulnerable and uncomfortable, but hopefully it's a place where we can share our experience and hope with each other. So Substack, Circle of Chairs and then just my website carolinebeidler.com. But I would love for folks to pick up a copy of my book to. When you love Someone in Recovery. Again, it's just a really practical, hopeful guide that will equip families to better understand what recovery is all about and give tools to be able to show up and support those that they love. Wow. That's wonderful. Well, to our listeners, we will put all that information in the the notes of this. But please like this. Share this. Pass this on to others. This is a message that we really need to talk about more. So again, thanks for joining us on this episode of Covenant Eyes. And please look for the next one. Take care and God bless.