Hey everybody, welcome back to the Covenant Eyes podcast. It's Karen, your host. I am the director of relationship marketing for Covenant Eyes, and I am so glad to be here today. We are having a great conversation today with the founder of a ministry called She Here's. And I've got Rachel Groll joining me. Rachel, thank you so much for coming on today. Oh yeah, Karen, thank you so much for having me. I have long been a fan of the work of Covenant Eyes and the Victory app and everything that you guys are doing, so I just really kind of an honor to join you today. Well, thanks so much. Well, for our listeners that are not familiar with your ministry or even your amazing podcast, let's share a little bit about who you are and, how you started your ministry. And then also talk a little bit about your podcast and what the goals are of the podcast now. Well, thank you so much for the opportunity. So I have long been in ministry. I've done everything from the local church to global missions and probably everything in between. And during the pandemic, I wrote a Bible study. And, you know, launching a book is not typically something I would recommend during a global pandemic. And what we ended up realizing was the traditional way of doing, you know, book tours and all those kinds of things was just not going to work. And so because we were locked in our homes for quite a bit of time, I decided to start a podcast. And initially it was really just to get the word a book about the book out. The book is called She Hears Learning to Listen to Jesus, and it wasn't my first book, but was, first book in a new genre for me. And I really just wanted to get this resources into the hands of women. And so what I quickly found was, like everybody else, we were all stuck at home and had time to ask some of those deep questions. And so what started off as an introduction to the book turned into really a discipleship podcast, where women were asking really good questions, and that was kind of within my wheelhouse. I was a teaching pastor, a missions pastor, a children's pastor. So everything from parenting to getting on the mission field were things that I had experience with. And so I just kept going with the podcast and to be perfectly honest, it was really just a side project that was initially something to keep me busy. And at the end of the first year, when things started to open up, I was really just praying about whether or not I should continue. At the end of the first year, I only had a thousand downloads total, so with all the episodes I had done combined, it was only a thousand downloads and I thought, well, I don't know that this is really worth my time. And as I was actually praying about it, I was in a church service. The Holy Spirit really convicted me, and he said, you know, you need to treat this podcast like you would the church. And honestly, that convicted me so much because I had treated it as like a fun project and maybe a way to sell some books. I had not seen it really as a ministry, and so that really became a perspective shift for me. And I thought, well, if I only have 20 people listening to episodes, I'm going to pray for those 20 people. I'm going to reach out to those 20 people and ask how I can pray for them. And really, what started was this shift in my heart where I really started to approach it as a ministry and discipleship opportunity and what we saw in year two. So year one, we had a thousand downloads a year or two, we had a million downloads, and then year three a little bit earlier this year, we hit, I think we're over 6 million downloads now. And so what we saw God do is really transform this podcast from, you know, just this little fun project in the beginning to really a new ministry space for me, which I did not anticipate. But I am so thankful that God has continued to open doors. And, you know, I think in a post-pandemic world, ministry and discipleship in a lot of ways looks different. There are people that just have not gone back to church or have not gone back to Bible study, and so I count it as an amazing, amazing privilege. I used to say I was an author that had a podcast, and now I'm a podcast ministry that has a couple books. And so things have kind of flipped in a really great way. I love that, and the fact that you took, you know, what we were all going through, which you know, a pandemic that nobody had expected and really turned it into something amazing, that was actually probably God timing, right? Because we were all at home and a lot of women were really struggling because everything that we had, you know, our routines, our children going to school, all the things, everything had imploded all around us. And so most women I know, we're going through a time of seeking and certainly, when churches closed in some locations, that was a real struggle. So I could see how this ministry was so valuable, even if it started small. I believe that certainly God has grown it. Talk to us a little bit about, some of the the unique things that you've heard from your listeners. You know, the challenges that women face that maybe are special and unique to women only. So some of the different topics that you discuss. You know, the overarching theme that I would hear over and over again was how can I tell the difference between God's voice, my own emotions, or my own thoughts and the voice of the enemy? And it didn't really matter, honestly, what age group? Or if somebody had been a believer for a little bit of time or a long time, a whole lifetime. There was this common thread of insecurity, of understanding how to hear God's voice. And so I recognize, you know, it might have come through in different ways and they might have used different language, but that really was the heart of the issue. And so I really started to just design content around how do I help people understand, number one, how to read God's Word, and number two, how to be confident when they know that God is speaking to them. And one of the things that I always say is God's voice will never contradict God's Word. And so we know that the primary way that God speaks to us is through His word. But yet so many women were not making the time to actually read God's Word. They would be familiar with God's Word. They would, you know, listen to it at church on Sunday or maybe even, you know, a Sunday sermon online or something. But when it came to actual Bible study, they were so women, so many women that had so many issues with that. Number one, because they didn't have time, they were working full time or raising kids or there's so many distractions for women. Or number two, they didn't understand what they were reading. So it wasn't making the transition into the relevance for their lives. And so what I started to do on the podcast is it really transitioned to this daily Bible study podcast, where we would take just a handful of verses and explain what does this actually mean? What did it mean then to the original audience? What was the original intention of that message from that original author? And what does this reveal about the nature and the character of God that's relevant to us today? Because we know those things don't change. And so even though our circumstances may change the context and the heart of Jesus for us in those situations is still the same. And so really, that's what I love, is helping women kind of bridge that gap between what is God's Word say and what does this mean for my life, for my family, for my relationships, all those kinds of things. I love that I think in our world today, there's so much coming at us, so many voices speaking into our lives through technology and just in our circles of influence that oftentimes our discernment can be weakened. You know, I think that oftentimes that is one of the one of the things, the themes that I hear most frequently in women's ministry is, you know, how do I discern that this is God's will or that this is what God wants me to be doing? And that is a tricky one. So as you reflect on that, I love that you point back to the Bible because you're right, absolutely that you'll never hear it from God. Something that countered the Bible. I mean, that is absolutely always the truth. How do you coach women who are maybe going through challenging times or even addressing challenging issues in their life, maybe divorced or, unfaithfulness in a marriage, pornography, those types of issues, those really painful, hurtful issues. How do you help them? You know, see God's Word for what it is during our struggles and our trials and tribulations. You know, one of the benefits of being a believer is the benefit of having the Holy Spirit as the comforter for us during those really hard seasons. And what we see in the pages of the scriptures is Jesus has a heart for those that are broken hearted, and that doesn't change. I know from my own life there have been seasons of brokenness and hurt. I went through a very painful, abusive divorce. I went through seasons of financial difficulty. You know, I can relate to women from a place of really knowing how that feels. And what I will say is, though I would not necessarily want to repeat those circumstances. There's an aspect of God and my relationship with him that I would not know now had I not gone through those seasons. And so I think sometimes we have a tendency as women to think, okay, well, I can go and I can pray to God and I can praise him for all the good things. But we tend to want to hide the hard things or think that we need to muster up the strength to do it on our own, or sums up our bootstraps and muscle through it. Or the opposite is true. I just don't know how to get through it. And I think for me, what I learned was Jesus wants to be in that place with us. Who wants to be in that brokenness with us? And that's how we get through those seasons, is by inviting him into that mess. I mean, that's really the whole reason why he came. He knew we weren't going to be able to get through this life, through the mess of this life without him. And so if I can teach women to be open and honest things like telling God you're angry, it's okay to be angry with God. He's got big shoulders. He can handle it. I used to think that was such a sin, but yet I know that in my relationship with my husband, for example, I can tell him I'm angry with you. What you did hurt me. I don't understand your actions. It hurts me. And then through our relationship, he can say, this is what my intention was. This is what my plan is and this is how we're going to get through it together. I think in a lot of ways, our relationship with the Lord is the same. And when we can get to this place where we can say, I don't understand, I'm angry with you, it's this raw, vulnerable place that then God can start to work. And Mitt, in the middle of all that brokenness that's powerful. Oh, that's so good. And just changing gears a little bit, I want to talk a little bit about your work because you mentioned that you are a staff pastor, and you also have a role, I believe it's with the Global Orphan Care organization. Talk to me a little bit about how that impacts your work and your podcast as well, because not only are you getting a glimpse into the struggles of women here in the United States, but you're seeing the struggles of women in places that most of us won't be able to travel to. Yeah. And, you know, that's changed for me a little bit over the years. I actually, just as pastor, stepped down from my full time ministry role because the podcast began so big. And I am also in the middle of a multi book contract with a major publisher, and I have to sleep sometimes, but thankfully I still have a partnership with Compassion International and I just got back from actually two trips with them within the last month where I was able to kind of continue some of the mission work that I've been doing for years and years. But one of the things that I noticed is that it didn't really matter if it was somebody, a woman in the local church, or if it was somebody in maybe inner city Brooklyn or somebody in the bush of Africa. Women seem to have common struggles, common insecurities, and common things that were questions within their relationship with the Lord. And so it became very interesting for me. And I realized that that's really in a lot of ways, how the enemy operates. It didn't really seem to matter where we were at. It was like a rural area where women barely, you know, enter the city and they're farming most of the time, or somebody that's, you know, living on the streets. It was really just this common thread where the enemy had tried to keep women from understanding how to hear God's voice. And then also, you know, I know some of the struggles that you're well aware of in the struggles that women have with pornography. I was so shocked. One of the things that I started to do is on our Facebook page. I just ask women when they come in on our inner Facebook group, what are some struggles you have in your relationship with the Lord? And I was so shocked to see how many women would say, I'm really struggling with pornography, and I don't feel like I can admit this to anybody. And, you know, I think it's one of those things where we don't necessarily talk about it very much in the church, or at least in the churches I've been a part of, because there's this shame around it where women don't even want to admit that they had a problem in the first place. And so women that are looking for resources or help are really it's really sparse to find resources within the context of the local church because they're afraid of being judged. They're afraid of saying things out loud that they're so ashamed of. And so in that forum where it was just this woman and me, and she knew that nobody else was going to see these answers besides me. It became this really vulnerable place where they were willing to be honest. And so I quickly realized that there is such a huge need for resources in this area, because it is a struggle that women have. It doesn't matter the age, it doesn't matter how long they've been a believer. It doesn't even matter location because unfortunately, I guess fortunately and unfortunately, you know, I can't even tell you how many times I've been in the bush in the middle of Africa and people still have cell phones, they still have connectivity, and it is something that has permeated the lives of people around the globe. Yeah, you are so right. And technology really has changed the landscape. And I think for women, our culture has become so increasingly porn ified. I mean, it's in our movies, it's in our TV shows. It's it has crept in in so many places. And I often when I'm talking to women's groups, you know, I talk about our discernment kind of being dulled by the constant bombardment of that and how we have to really sharpen our, our, our receptors. You know, we really need to be aware of that because it creeps in and the enemy is using all of these different angles to really, you know, to attack us. And we have to we have to be able to fortify ourselves with God's Word and with his, his armor. You know, I mean, he gives us the sword of truth, and we need to use that. So talk to me a little bit about, your podcast specifically, if women listening today are interested in learning more, what kind of topics do you dive into and what can they expect to learn? Or, you know, do you have a community element as well built into that? Yeah. So we have a couple different levels depending on how committed people want to be in and how deep they want to dive on a service level. We have a Facebook group that is very general where women just encourage other women. We share prayer requests. It's very service level for people that want to dive a little bit deeper. We have a Patreon group, and in the Patreon it's a little bit deeper topics. But on the podcast, I've done a range of things. Right now we're doing the gospel of Mark, where we're going through a little by little and we're talking about the history and the culture and the context and how that's relevant to daily life. Some of the other things that we've done, like this past summer, we did a spiritual discipline series. So we talked about everything from fasting to worship to prayer to solitude and how those are all different kinds of muscles that help us grow spiritually. And so it's kind of a mix. It's kind of a mix of Bible study. Usually in the fall we do Bible study, but then throughout the year we do different topics. Anything from, you know, we did love sex in the Bible and we talked about what that actually looks like from a healthy perspective within our marriage relationships. That was a really popular one that we did this past year. We talk about women in and the leadership that God calls them to in Scripture and what that looks like for women. Now we talk about honestly, I do question is and answers a lot where women can write in what their questions are. And then I'll unpack that. So it could be anything from homosexuality to divorce to pornography to parenting, all of these topics that are really affecting women in their everyday lives. Because I think my heart for this podcast, and I think for all of the resources that I do, is something that's very practical, that gets off of the pages of their Bible and into their hearts, into their minds, into their behavior, because that's really what God wants for us. He doesn't want our Bibles to just stay on our desk. He wants that word to be in our heart. Absolutely. Yeah. And I know on your website you talk a lot about helping women kind of reveal the things that are deep inside our hearts, right? Because we tend to you know, I mean, it's kind of in our nature. We we have to be strong. We paint on these faces, we go to church and we aren't willing to be vulnerable and share those, those deep insecurities. Our fears, you know, our own desires. What advice do you have for women who might be, you know, struggling with pornography or just struggling with insecurities or, you know, fears and things like that? What advice do you have for them as a good first step in kind of addressing some of those challenges in their lives? Well, I think for a first step, I think it's really important to be honest with God. I think it's really hard to be on a path of healing or relief from any kind of addiction, really, or even any insecurity. If we're not first honest with God and he knows, he already knows, you know, he's he's in the room with us. He knows all of the things that we struggle with. But I think from a foundational perspective, getting to a place where you say, okay, God, I know that I can't do this on my own. I know that this is an insecurity that has chased me my whole life. This is an addiction that takes me my whole life. I cannot do it on my own. I think that is the foundational aspect of where we say, okay, God, I want to invite you into this process. And I think for a lot of women, that's tough because we think, okay, God is too holy for my mess. But the reality is, is that's how we get through it. That's how we clean things up, is when we invite him into that mess. You know, it's so cliche. We say our mess becomes our message. But really, that's the truth of it, where we invite God into the mess of our lives and we allow him to clean up and we partner with God in that process. I think beyond that, I think accountability is a really important part of that process as well. I know you have resources for accountability. One of the things that we do in on the Facebook group event and say, okay, this is the accountability post, what do you need accountability for? And maybe you're not ready to say, I need accountability for, you know, my pornography addiction or reading, dirty romance novels or, you know, whatever it is that I'm struggling with this, maybe it's, you know, there's some women that want help getting off of, cigarets. I mean, there's just all different ways, but what do you need? Accountability for it. For me, sometimes it's even things like sleep, because I tend to not sleep as much as I need. So I need somebody telling me, hey, you know, shut the light off

00, go to bed, stay off of TikTok. It's those kinds of things that are real world examples. And what I've tried to do is create this community of women that are there to hold each other accountable, to pray for each other and to build each other up. Because we also know that there's this flip side of it, what happens when we mess up, when we mess up so often? I don't know about you, but I tend to have this all or nothing kind of personality. Where okay, well, I messed up, so it's back to square one, so I might as well just indulge in a whole sleeve of Oreos, because I had three of them on my diet or whatever it is. And so I think when you have a place where there's accountability and grace in that space, you can be honest and say, okay, I messed up. Let's start over. And then having somebody else to say, okay, you know what? I've been there. Do you got this? And then I think the other part of that is recognizing that, you know, there's never been. And the precursor, I guess, to what I want to say is, God can and does do miracles where people are delivered like that from from things that are struggles. But more often what I've experienced in my own life is that that deliverance from any kind of addiction or stronghold or anything in typically is a process. And part of that process. What I've realized is, as I've gotten to know Jesus more and as I've gotten closer with him, those things take up less space in my heart, in my mind, in my lifestyle, because I'm crowning it with more of Jesus. And if I look back over the course of my life, I don't know that I ever, you know, could acknowledge, okay, this is the last day I ever did something. It was an addictive part of my personality. But what I do know is that was the year that I got closer to Jesus. That was the year that I made the commitment to chase after him. And it was kind of a natural byproduct of becoming closer to him, where he delivered me of those things that I couldn't otherwise be delivered. And so it sounds like a Sunday school answer. And I don't mean to be again, I don't mean to be cliche, but I really do think that a relationship with Jesus is the pathway to getting freedom from all of those things. Absolutely. 100% agree. So I love that. Well, for the listeners out there, that would like to check out maybe some of your book. So let's talk about that. I know you've authored a couple of books that were more, I know you had some other ones that you coauthored or contributed to as well. So talk to us a little bit about some of the books that you've written and who is the audience and and what are the topics? Well, I used to be a children's pastor, so the first set of books that I wrote were really for people that were in ministry and maybe facing things like burnout or, you know, all those things are common. When I wrote the last big book, before I switched to Bible studies, that book was called go, and it was about starting an outreach ministry, and it was part testimony of how God opened doors for us when the enemy tried to shut them down. Part curriculum, part an encouragement for people that might find themselves in that place. But really, what happened is the Lord kind of brought me out of that season of ministry and into this season of women's ministry. And so she hers was my last big book. I actually just finished writing my next book. It'll be out next year. But she was really is a Bible study that helps women take a look at six women in the life of Jesus, how he empowers them, how he equips them, how he speaks to them, how he calls them. And it's an in-depth look at those six relationships from the book of John that I think were foundational for me. So something like The Samaritan Woman, it's a story we all know and we are familiar with. But when you meditate on it for a long period of time, and you look at the original context and you look at the relationship between Jesus and this woman, and we realize that, you know, her story was so powerful the disciples had and this is just a quick example, but the disciples had been down in town, you know, getting food all day. And when they came back, they came back alone. But when that woman went down in town and she shared the testimony of what Jesus had said to her, she drove people back up to him, which tells us that women have influence within their circle. They have influence that you or I might not have because people know them, and it's their testimony that's going to drive people to Jesus. It's things like that. When we look at those stories of how Jesus called these women that really, I think, change the tide for a lot of women where they can recognize, oh, yeah, God does want to use me, whether it is in my home, whether it is at my job, whether it is in the supermarket or wherever it is. And then coupled with that, there's a lot of places in that Bible study to process, process, emotions, process. Past her, process addiction, and give those things over to Jesus in a way that's going to produce some lasting change. And so I teach women, that's called the color method of Bible study. And it teaches them how to really understand what they're reading in Scripture. And so it's a great verse book for somebody that is new to understanding the Bible or not even new, but just wants to understand those stories in a fresh way. And then the next book I have out, I don't even have a title for it yet, but it is all about women that had a prophetic voice in Scripture. So women like Deborah and Anna and hold that and what God did through their stories within their circles of influence. And so my heart really is to point women back to the scriptures and to see how Jesus encourages and calls and equips them. I love that. How do you encourage moms out there or women out there who maybe, you know, they're not in ministry or they're not maybe working their stay at home moms, you know, because oftentimes I feel like stay at home moms sometimes get, you know, get a little down because, you know, they feel like, you know, it's hard work, but nobody really sees or knows that. How do you offer some encouragement to them that the importance of their role really is important to their family and to their children? Yeah. Well, I you know, as a children's pastor, one of the things I would always share with moms is I would get their kids maybe an hour a week, two hours, if you have a long church service or you're there for multiple times during that week, 99% of the time those children are with their mom. And that means that the primary person that is responsible for the spiritual discipleship of those kids is the mom. And, you know, I my kids are on the older side now. I have teenagers, I have one that's in college. And what I've seen is all of those years that I invested, it's giving spiritual truths to my kids. They're starting to pour out now, you know? And, you know, when you start to see your kids depend on their relationship with the Lord because it's their own relationship, you realize that all of those moments were worth it. All of those prayers were worth it. You know, one of the things we also have as a resource for moms is we have the Hearing Jesus for kids podcast, and that is designed specifically for kids. But then we have family discussion guides, and the family discussion guides serve as a way to just have discussions. Maybe it's around the dinner table or before bed, when kids naturally want to ask a lot of questions and stay up too late. But I think those moments are holy moments. They can feel mundane. They can feel like, my gosh, I have four loads of laundry to do. The kitchen's a mess and hear this. You know, kids asking me this huge question about God. But yet those are the moments that become foundational to the spiritual growth of our kids. And so my goal is really to help provide resources in all of those areas. And we have more coming down the pike with those as well. But I feel like recognizing first and foremost that it really is a season of ministry, the most important ministry you're ever going to do. And so recognizing that it is a holy assignment, even if it's not, you know, there are days I remember as a young mom, there were days, maybe even weeks, or I don't even know that I left the house until unless it was like to go to the grocery store. And I just remember feeling, oh my gosh, like, am I even making impact? But the reality is, is we are. Because generations of kids that come after our kids are going to be impacted by the spiritual legacy you're giving to your kids in this season. Absolutely, I love that. That's great encouragement for our homeschool moms out there that are part of our audience. So thank you, I appreciate that. Well, as we bring today's episode to a close, I just want to leave our listeners with a little bit of word of wisdom or some encouragement and also, remind them how they can get in touch with you and your podcast. So let's go ahead and start with that word of encouragement that you'd like to offer to our audience. And then we'll point them to your resources. You know, I think one of the things that I always say on the podcast, and I think this is true for moms, no matter if they're working inside of their home, outside of the home, maybe for women that aren't even moms that might be listening, there can be so much pressure, I think sometimes to think, okay, well, I don't have a ministry, or I'm not even in an office where I can pray for people. But I think ultimately what we're called to is to know him and to make him known. So knowing him is a first important concept that we don't have to really know who Jesus is. And we do that through his word. And then making him known. Whether it is to your children, your husband, to your next door neighbor, don't underestimate that call because God can do more with our 30s than we can with 30 years. And so I would just encourage you to just come back to that place of making sure that you are knowing him and making him known. And then also, I would say for people that are in a place of just curious about what God is doing, I would say I am always here as a resource for, helping you to know God and you know his voice more clearly. And so I have, like I said, the question and answer series on my podcast. If you have questions, if there's some of those deep burning spiritual questions, I'm always a resource and happy to help. And then you can always reach out. She hears that org is the website, and that's where you can kind of find the umbrella for all of the different things. I'm doing, whether it's courses or coaching or podcasting or travel, all of those things. Awesome. All right. Well, we'll be sure to put all those links in the show notes, because that way our listeners can grab those. Oftentimes they're driving, they're at the gym, so they can't necessarily write them down. And we know that so well. Thank you Rachel Groll, so much for joining us today. It's been a great conversation. I love your passion to serve women and to help them be more discerning and hear from the Lord. I love that so much. Thank you for all your hard work and thanks for joining the podcast today. Yeah. Thanks so much for having. Awesome. All right. Well, listeners, definitely make sure you hit the like button and subscribe and share this podcast far and wide. We'll see you next time on the Covenant Life podcast. Take care. God bless.