Everybody, welcome back to The Covenant Eyes Podcast. It is so good to have you here again with us. We have got another exciting episode. We've got an amazing pastor joining us today. Rob, I'm excited for this conversation. How are you doing? Yeah, we have a wonderful guest today. We're really excited. Pastor Kyle Worley is, joining us today. And, pastor, welcome to The Covenant Eyes Podcast. Hey, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Appreciate it. Great, great. Well, pastor, will you tell us a little bit about your background and, the ministry you're doing now and, how you got to this point? Yeah, yeah. So my name is Kyle Worley. I've been serving as a pastor of a church that I planted in 2018. We're right outside of Dallas, Texas. We're called Mosaic Church. Beyond pastoring, and really before pastoring, I'm a husband and been married for nearly 15 years. I'm an adoptive father of two little ladies that we have in the house right now. And, I'm an author. I just recently released a book called home With God, which is about union with Christ. And then I run a podcast with Jen Wilkin and JT English called the Knowing Faith podcast. So that's a little bit about what I do. Came to faith at a young age under the discipleship of my parents, and I'm just glad to be in the Lord. Let's talk a little bit about this book that you have coming out and give a give our listeners kind of a preview of what they can expect with the book. Yeah. So the book just released in February, it's called Home With God, and it's all about union with Christ. In union with Christ is the doctrine that reminds us that when God saves us, he saves us in Christ Jesus. You think about Romans eight one. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. You think about how Romans eight ends in verse 31. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. And so the doctrine of union with Christ is all about exploring. What does it mean to be in Christ Jesus? And so, the book is called home with God. It released in February. And really, I believe union with Christ, being in Christ Jesus is both the most basic thing you can say about a Christian and the most wonderful thing that you can say about a Christian. You know, Kyle, you know, we deal with people who are struggling with shame and temptation, struggling with pornography. Often this sense of identity and purpose, this has to be a major theme for people to really realize who they are in Christ when they're facing this struggle. What would you say to people who are struggling, in regards to being in Christ? Yeah. Well, as somebody who has been a lifelong struggler in Christ, I've learned a few things along the way, as we all have. You know, I'll tell you, it was really when my, struggle, my hidden struggle with pornography came to light, where the doctrine of you with Christ became not just a theological truth, but a glorious reality. You know, when my sin was pulled out into the light, I was so ashamed. I was so ashamed. The fact that I kept buried and kept hidden this deception. And in truth, I really felt like, you know what the best I can do is hope that God will forgive me. But the reality of being in Christ is not just that God forgives us, but that he welcomes us. And I think the lie of shame is that even if we can be forgiven, we can't be beloved. We can't be fully known and fully loved. But in Christ Jesus, we're not just forgiven, we're declared beloved. And that is really we are. Shame begins to be uprooted where we don't just experience the forgiveness of God, but the, the welcome of God. Like the prayer of Aaron that God makes his face to shine upon us, that he's you might say that God in Christ is glad to see us even when we aren't happy to see ourselves in the mirror. So good. And spoken like a pastor. I'm loving this episode here. This is a this is good content for our listeners. I believe you have another book that you worked on formed and fellowship are formed for fellowship obviously going down a path of Lord of the rings here or something, but oh my goodness. But, in that you connect spiritual, disciplines to beholding God. So for some that are trying to break free from these unhealthy habits that we have, whether it's pornography or just even our bad digital habits, I mean, doomscrolling it could be any of the things, how do we practice or how can we use practices maybe like prayer or scripture reading to kind of reshape our pursuits? Yeah. You know, that is a wonderful question because the real goal of fellowship is to behold God, you know, Adam and Eve, when they were created and they live in the garden with God. The hope is like their life is meant to be lived in the delighting presence of God. That they were meant to live in this unbroken, rested fellowship with God and in the new heavens, in the new earth. This is what we see too, as, the New Jerusalem comes down. We hear, behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will be their God, and they will be his people. But you know, in the Beatitudes, in the sermon on the Mount, what is one of the, the promises? Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God, see God, see the real goal, the real hope, the real glory, the real prize, the real treasure is seeing God is beholding God. And so when we think about the role of spiritual practices, prayer, Bible study, Bible reading, trying to live in obedience to God's commands, the goal of those things isn't paying back a debt we owe to God. The goal of those things is actually getting to see and enjoy more of God and more of God's presence. That's the real glory. And so, you know, I talk I quoted the prayer of Aaron, but from beginning to end, the goal and the hope of the righteous one is that they might see the very face of God. But beholding God, when we are caught up and identified by the muck and mire of sin isn't a good thing. It's a hard thing. This is what Isaiah experiences in Isaiah six, right when he's brought up into the throne room and he sees the holiness of God. Holy, holy, holy, the angels proclaim, is this Lord God, who was and is, and is to come? Isaiah sees this as woe is me from a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips. So the difference is, it's good to behold God when you are united to Christ, it is bad to behold God when you were outside of Christ. So form for fellowship is all about having been rescued by God in Christ Jesus. We are now set on this new way that is headed towards beholding God for good forever. And it is in his presence where there is fullness of joy. Go get this book. It's, it's going to change your life. Let's take this down a little bit, pastor, you know, as a as a father, as a pastor, you know, you've seen the challenges of raising kids today. What would you say to the parents who are struggling to guide their their children in this? You know, screen app, online influence culture that we're living in right now? Yeah. Well, I think one of the things that we often forget while we try to form habits is what's going on at the heart level, you know, why are kids drawn to, why are they drawn to the enticements of, perpetual social media use or being entrapped in social media? Why are they enticed towards comparison? Why are they enticed towards pornography? It's because there is a desire, there is a homeward ache in their heart. There is a longing that they have, that the enemy in the flesh believe, can be satisfied with the things of this world. And our kids are not so unlike us as adults, are they? Because we're often enticed and drawn and tempted by things that might seem more sophisticated to us, they might seem more adult, but often they're they're just as, they're just as failing as the things that draw and entice young minds as well. And so one of the things I think we can do with young kids and students is we can draw near to them and we can say, what you are looking for, you will not find over there. You want to be beloved. You want to have your desires satisfied. Guess what? God made you with desire. God made you with longing. And the only time that you're going to find satisfaction is when you find that satisfaction in him. Like the church, Father Augustine said, God, make me restless until I find my rest in you. Coming alongside restless kids and saying, you know what? I know you're restless. I know that it feels like you're going to find what you're looking for over there. But the truth of the matter is, is that God has made you for himself, and everything else will fail. Everything else will fail. I think that's a big part of it, is getting to the heart, getting to the heart quickly while we wait for the habits to catch up. That was amazing. Oh my gosh, so much wisdom packed into that. Pastor, you're kind of known for making these like, deep theological concepts and principles accessible to the average Joe. You know, people like myself where, you know, we didn't go to seminary, but we certainly seek after God, and we want to know him deeply. Talk to us a little bit about some practices that we can use in our own lives, day to day, that can help us grow and and be sanctified, and to know God more every, every day. Yeah, that's a great question. I think one of the things that we can begin with is we can begin with a prayer each morning and, close our days of the prayer each evening that reminds us our, our heart of who we really are. Oftentimes, we rush in prayer to what we need while forgetting to remind ourselves in praise of who God is and who we are. A simple way to do this is to begin in in your day with what I call a prayer of a child, which is to begin our prayers by saying, God, you are father and I am your son. In Jesus Christ there is nowhere I can go and nothing I can do that will change that. And oftentimes at the end of the day, I'll pray either by myself or I'll pray with my daughter and I'll say, God, we are your children. There's no where we can go. There is nothing we can do that's going to change that. I think that reminding ourselves day in and day out, where there were caught up in sin and battling it, or whether we've had a day marked by victory or failure, there is not a future version of us that God is going to love more. If we are in Christ Jesus, we are as fully loved today as we will be when heaven comes. And reminding ourselves of that simple truth is how we retain the faith of a child. And I think that's really important. I often find believers want to rush on to the complicated, heady things. They want to rush on to the radical things. Oftentimes, God's ordinary invitation is good enough for ordinary days. You are a child of God. Reminding ourselves of that is the ground and the goal of the entire Christian life. Along that same line, you've written a lot about the beauty of being at home with God. And, you know, we know we have a lot of people that listen here that are really weighed down, you know, by their life choices and pressures. What encouragement can you offer someone that's struggling with that right now? Well, we talk about union with Christ as our home with God because a healthy home, is a place of not just forgiveness, but a place of welcome. For most Christians, they believe the highest thing that God has for them is forgiveness. But forgiveness is not the goal of salvation. Fellowship is the goal of salvation. And what I'll say is this if you're caught up in shame right now, if you're caught up in just kind of the hustle and bustle of life, if you feel like you're in a pit of despair, God has more for you than to just be brought back to a blank slate. God is welcoming you. He's not just a holy judge that acquits you. He's a delighting father that loves you. I can I can think of many times, many times when I had failed in sin, that I promised myself I would never step into it again, when I can hardly look at myself in the mirror without the stink of shame. And in those moments, it was basically impossible for me to remember that the way I saw myself was not how God saw me. The disgust that I had with myself was not an indication of what God thought of me. That even when I am most disgusted with myself, God is still delighted with me in Christ Jesus. It doesn't mean he's pleased with what I've done. It doesn't mean he's pleased with what I might do. But it does mean that in Christ he has declared me as a beloved child of God, with whom he is well pleased, and that that I think often is forgotten in our struggle with sin. We think that until I get right with God again, I am outside of his favor. But that is not how the Bible talks about our relationship with God. And it's not a good engine for meaningful change. It isn't. I tried that engine. I tried the grit. I tried the grit mode for a long time of just telling myself that I was the worst guy in the room, the worst guy in the world. And that that's what God thought of me as well. But the truth of the matter is, is that if you and I were at a coffee shop and God was talking about you at the other table, and he didn't know you were behind him, he would be talking about you as a father delights in his child. That's how the father speaks of us in Christ. And I think that is really important to remember. That's what it means to live at home with God. We can't ever be forsaken. There's never a No vacancy sign like the prodigal son. When we return, even if we come back begging to be made a slave, the father won't allow it. He is going to call us son or daughter because that is what we are. Oh my goodness, so inspirational. And I think so many listeners are really going to be just renewed and refreshed by what you have been preaching here. This is such a good content. Thank you so much, Pastor Kyle. I can't express to you enough how impactful, you reminding people of these important truths is, especially when they are in the trenches and struggles with pornography. So thank you. Thank you so much. Well, as we bring today's episode to a close, I want to make sure that we absolutely point people to, your podcast and also, the name of your book and where they can get their hands on this book. Yeah. So they can find me anywhere online at Kyle Worley. That's where I'm at on social media. You can go to Kyle Worldline that has all of the links to all of the things. But if you want to check out the book, you can get home with God, our union with Christ, or form for fellowship. Wherever you get books, it's everywhere. Excellent. And your podcast knowing Faith podcast, correct? Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. The whole goal of knowing Faith is to make the Bible and theology accessible for everyone. So we just finished a whole year in the book of revelation. And it turns out revelation is not as confusing as you might think it is, and way more encouraging than you might imagine. So we had a good time with it. That sounds fun. Yeah, I think if anybody can make an encouraging or sound encouraging, you'll do it. And it is encouraging. So, pastor, you have been a wonderful encouragement today. But, for our listeners, this is such a key issue. So many just struggle with the behavior and try to address just the behavior, but it's not the behavior that's a piece of it, of course, but it's it's our it's our walk with Christ. It's a position with him and our closeness to him and drawing close. So we just love this conversation. We'd love to have you back on again in another time and, and explore this a little bit more. So thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me. And to all of our listeners out there, we hope that you found this episode encouraging. And definitely check out all of Pastor Kyle's amazing work that his books and his podcast. I am definitely getting a go. Subscribe today because you just, my my goodness, you just really brought so much inspiration to this conversation. Pastor Kyle, I am just so grateful. Thank you so much for joining us today. All right, listeners, we'll see you next time. Be sure to like and subscribe and share this one far and wide. Let's give some people some encouragement for today. Take care of God bless. We'll see you next time.