Hey, everybody, welcome back to The Covenant Eyes Podcast. We're so glad to have you join us. We are still at NRB and meeting a lot of amazing folks here. Rob today is no exception. We have got a great guest joining us. Oh we do, we do. We've had some great ones. But we're excited to have Melissa Dougherty. Yeah yeah. You got it. Yeah yeah. Well welcome to The Covenant Eyes Podcast. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. For our listeners, would you just start tell us a little bit about your background and how you have gotten to either the ministry that you're in today. Sure. Yeah. I, I became a Christian at 16. Fell into some wickety-wack theology, which is what I wrote about and then got into counter cult ministry after that, which is, you know, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons. Maybe that's a strong word, counter cult. But, that's kind of what we called it at the time. And, that was in 2011 and then got into online ministry about five years ago or so, maybe kind of accidentally, and it turned into a thing. So here we are, I guess. Yeah, I love that. And I love your full story. And, you know, you have a YouTube channel. I can share a lot of that. So it's really exciting. But, you have a journey and you've seen some of the dark side of this deconstruction movement. You talk a lot about that. Let's talk about your book, though, Happy Lies, because I think you probably dive into some of those topics and yeah, that stuff. So let's talk about what's in this book and when does it come out or is it out? It's already out. Perfect. Yeah I think today. What is the date today? I think it's a month today or tomorrow, something like I just came out. But yeah, it's called Happy Lies and it's about the New Thought movements. The subtitle is how a movement you probably never heard of shaped our self-obsessed world, because everybody's heard of this. People are like, what's new thought? No, you've you've experienced it. Okay. Even if you don't know what the movement is. And it's not to be confused with New Age, I think that's where people go is like, oh, it's the same as New Age. And, you know, at new ages, think of tarot cards, psychic mediums, Reiki, reincarnation and karma. I could go down a whole list. It's more eastern. Okay. New Sai is more subtle. It's more Gnostic in origin, and it's made to look Christian. So it's. Very dangerous. Yes. It's very. That's how I got caught up in it. I'm like, oh, this is real Christianity. This is, you know, true Christianity. It's, metaphysical Christianity is what they would say, which is there's a non-literal understanding to certain things in the Bible that has a higher meaning and esoteric meaning. This is where it can get kind of gnostic. Think of, manifestation affirmations. Oh, yes. You know, and my friend Alisa Childers, you know who that is? Yes. Of course. Yeah. Me and her had an inside joke forever when I thought I was a New Ager. Basically, I hear, I mean, I was maybe 80, 20, it was, I was, I was always I overlapped, you know, but we had an inside joke where, you know, a progressive Christian in a new age or new thought are really walking to a coffee shop and discover they believe the same thing and become best friends. We're like, what is this overlap? How does this happen? So I have a whole chapter on that about why so many progressives sounds like a new theater. Where does this come from? The self-help movement, the foundation of the self-help movement came from New Thought authors like Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, Norman Vincent Peale. All of them called themselves Christians, but they're teaching these new thought concepts. Yeah. And every chapter, it's secular and it's also religious. So I go into the history, I go into some controversial places that it's in the church. Yeah. There's something for everybody in this book to get it out. Like I leave nothing on the table here, you know, and it's interesting because you brought up some names like Dale Carnegie, I and any of us that have gone to business. Oh, he's got some great stuff. He's got some great material. And it's kind of, you know, that's the indoctrination you go through in business school and it's like, wow. You sign up for one thing, but you don't realize you don't. Then you're signing it. Yeah, it's like a cookbook. Yeah. Like you're you're following this really good diet. But you don't understand that there's an underlying philosophy that goes a long way. Yeah. It's kind of like that. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So what is the reception been so far to the book. Because I'm sure there are a lot of people that are a little offended because they don't realize they're probably walking in this new kind of movement. I haven't really gotten. I'm still feeling that part out, if I'm honest. I feel like I think in a year I'll know how to answer that. Yeah. Good point. Because I'm like, yeah, this is it's an exposé of this movement that looks and sounds Christian, that you might be believing, and that's hard. And I explained, that's what happened to me, though I know how this feels. Except it wasn't just like I was dabbling in it. Like I like Law of Attraction and visualization and all these things. And I was in it thinking it was Christian. And so I know what that feels. But my attitude was, oh, I need to lean and I need to repent. Oh no. Like I need to lean into this. And so my hope is so far it's that. But every message I've gotten has been thank you. So that's interesting. I'm positive that there's people out there that are not they're not going to like it. But I, I did I make a joke that I lost my mind writing this book because I tried so hard to have integrity, writing it to make sure that the, the, the research was sound. I did boots on the ground research, so I, I went and I actually went into the unity centers. I went into the places that believe in progressive churches. I had the conversations. And they are wonderful people. Sure. And I think there's a human sincere element. Yeah, that I want to bring to the table. Or I'm like you to understand somebody doesn't mean you affirm them, but I need to understand completely what this belief system is for you to know what it is. And I did my best doing that. And I hope that, you know, the research comes full circle and people can see what this is, but also why it's not biblical. Yeah. now Melissa. Yeah. In your book, do you, just really explain this movement or do you really counter counter it with what the God is explaining it? Okay. Yeah, most of it is. I have two chapters. Three? Just educating the reader on what this is. And the first half is kind of more secular, like, where is it in the, secular sense? And then relativism. I had to go over. You can't believe this without messing with truth. Which is why, kind of like Happy Lies. It's it's a it's a way of kind of bending reality and truth to your will, but it that sounds simplistic in their mind. It's not that simple. And so it's really just here's what this is, here's why it matters. And every chapter expands on what this is and how it's affected Christians and and Christianity. It sounds like a really deep read, like you're gonna want to spend some time here. It's hard. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. And I think it probably will reveal areas of our lives where maybe these things have crept in and we really need to assess where we're at. What are some of the most common things that you're seeing? You know, in the church today where this kind of thought, this stuff is sneaking in and, and we're just kind of unaware. I think we'll I'll start with one and then I'll give a more controversial one. First one is manifestation. This is an enormous trend. If there's any parents listening right now, your kids are are hearing about manifestation and law of attraction and visualization. The powers of the mind, powers of the universe, things like that. Can you explain what that means? Yeah. This is, they all kind of go together. I mentioned Law of Attraction and Manifestation. Think of your thoughts and your feelings very specifically being magnetic and have like a magnetic frequency that affects everything around you. Okay. So it builds on this concept is a little geeky. I called idealism, which is this idea that the material world physically, everything you see physically is a response to your mind, which is why you can think yourself rich, think yourself healthy, think yourself. Yeah, okay, so that's your manifesting. So and there's actually a proper way to use the word where it's that it's not what it means. But that's typically, you know, the way it goes. Same with metaphysical. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you got to kind of define a little bit more. But manifestation is a big trend. The other one, this one kind of gets people is that the health and wealth prosperity teachings are not inherently, solely in that camp that I draw a line back the historic line because I go back to new Thought, because my frustration was, is I left this movement and I'm seeing the exact, phrasing, the exact scriptures, everything in the church. I'm like, what's the connection here? And it turns out that's no coincidence. There's a direct line back to the New Thought movement. And so, that's just three. There's a lot more you have, positive confessions with, like, your, your mind or your, your words and thoughts having power. So what you think and speak creates your reality because you're a co-creator with God. Everything I just said is a new thought concept. Oh my goodness. But I, I guarantee that there are Christians being taught that in a Christian context. So, and that's just a few like there's chapters, that go over where this is more in the church and in society. Yeah. At the end of the day, what does this do to the church? I mean, obviously with this creeping in and the pressures that we see in culture, I mean, culture just kind of denigrating around us, what is this going to do to the church if we don't get ourselves educated, read a book like this, know the dangers, and take action? Well, I first want to give some grace because I think that if you believe this as a Christian, it doesn't mean you're not saved. You can be in error and still be saved. I believe wholeheartedly that you do not need to have 100% good theology. I did not I. I believed the gospel radically changed and I believe in some really crazy things for a few years. Sure. Yeah, right. And then I came out. So I do want to give grace. That doesn't mean you're like a heretic or anything bad like that. But I think what happens is that you become a spiritual cancer and you don't know it. You are, in essence, misrepresenting what truth is and you don't know it. And I think when we know better, we do better. And I really do think that that's there's so much more I could say on that. But I would say that in essence, that's what what happens. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Well, Melissa, we are really excited to share with our listeners this book, and we want to encourage everybody to get their hands on this book. In closing today, do you have some words of encouragement to our audience? Because I'm sure this is going to open a lot of, you know, a lot of eyes, a lot of new revelation will come from this. But at the end of the day, we still need hope and encouragement for. Yeah, for our future. Well, I would say that. Oh, there's so much to look first. Know what this is? I think that, you know, knowing what this is, knowing your Bible. And maybe sidelining a few things like, does this look secret? Does this look new? Who is it glorifying? You know, these are the questions that we gotta ask ourselves and just something I kind of a theme in the book is not being afraid of the light. Right? Like we always say, don't be afraid of the dark and right. Don't be afraid of the light. Yeah. Because Jesus is the light. And it's in

17-21. And I quote that, and I think that's really what it's about. I would encourage you not, don't be afraid to go in the dark, in the light and be exposed for what this is because, he says, those that won't come to him, they're in the darkness. And there is a false light. Yeah, a light that is dark. Yeah, absolutely. Melissa, where do our listeners find your book and more more information about you and connect with you? Yeah. The anywhere you can buy books. There and then I'm on YouTube. That's why most people know me from and I’m on all socials. Yep. So yeah, that's where they can find me. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Well, and if you haven't checked out Melissa's YouTube channel, it's amazing. You have a ton of good teaching, a lot of great videos. You you've I think you've had Alan Parr on your channel. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone you know them well audience. So that's fantastic. Well, Melissa, thank you for putting the thought and the effort into this book because I know it wasn't easy doing all the research that having to go in and really research it well. So thank you for this. And our listeners will be back. You guys, thank you so much for having me on. Of course. Thank you, listeners, for tuning in to this episode of The Covenant Eyes Podcast. We'll see you next time.