Hey everybody, welcome back to The Covenant Eyes Podcast. We are in season four and I am so excited about today's conversation. I'm your host, Karen. I've got Theo sitting in shotgun seat over here. He is the co-host. Theo, how are you doing? Great, Karen, thanks for having me on and for allowing me to be the co-host. How are you? Absolutely doing. Wonderful. And today we've got a good friend of yours, Steve O'Connor, with Catholics Fight Porn joining us. And we're going to be talking about recovery basics and something Steve calls the head to heart healing. So I'm excited to unpack that a little bit. We've got tons of other topics we'll be covering, but we're just really glad to have everybody joining us. This is season four. You guys have had three amazing seasons up to this point. Let's, see how we can do a season four, I'm very excited. Absolutely, absolutely. And for those who don't know, Theo is actually newer to the Covenant Eyes family. He is our new Catholic outreach specialist, and we are so excited to have him on the team. And he is going to be co-hosting. And each time we've got someone amazing from our Catholic family joining us. And so Theo, we're just we're excited to have you. And for the listeners out there, they're going to get to know you over this season. It'll be great to host alongside you every time. We got a great Catholic guest on like we do today. Absolutely. Well with that, Steve, welcome to The Covenant Eyes Podcast. Would you mind giving everybody just a little bit of your background and how you got started with Catholic spy porn? Absolutely. Well, thank you for having me, Kieran, and nice to see you, Theo. And yeah, so I run a, you know, business ministry called Catholics Fight Porn. And my story goes back to when I was exposed to pornography at the age of ten, finding it at a friend's house, he they had the drop ceilings and he said, hey, look at what, what my older brother has. And so, for some reason, I was instantly mesmerized and wanted more. And anytime I could get more, I would, back than it was in print. You know, it wasn't on a phone or a device. So, you know, fast forward, it took off more in high school when there was more access. And, friends. Yeah. You figured out friends, parents that had it or, you know, also, the internet was ramping up, so we were able to to find it more accessibly online. And so I got addicted and I didn't while I went to Catholic education through high school, I think I knew deep down it was wrong, but I wasn't doing anything about it. I wasn't into my faith that, at a deep level in high school. And so it wasn't until college that I had my own conversion and really dove back into the faith, discovering all the, the classics and the the, treasures of the Catholic faith that I had laid aside. And so once I was getting into my faith, I was still acting out, looking at corn almost every day, masturbating almost every day, and heard a talk by Christopher West, who has really taken Pope John Paul the Second theology of the body. And and he, you know, kind of he put it into his own words, essentially. And so I heard him speak. I got his book and it all clicked like, this is wrong. This is sinful. And this needs to stop. Now, the problem for me was I couldn't stop, I couldn't stay stopped. I'd stopped a thousand times, but I couldn't stay stopped. I couldn't live a life of virtue. I couldn't live a life without the sin. So now I'm in college. I'm going to mass every day. But you're not supposed to receive the Eucharist in a in a state of sin. And see, Paul says that's like eating and drinking condemnation upon yourself. And so go to confession, you know, to to have these sins removed from your soul and, and have that clean heart, clean slate. I was going to confession multiple times a week at the, the women's Center, which is the college, the church on campus where I went to school. So there was a lot of shame in there that I couldn't kick this, that I couldn't get better. What does everybody think of Steve was in the confession line three, 4 or 5 times a week. And so I graduated college and still acting out. And it wasn't until I started dating the woman that would become my wife. I disclosed to her this problem that I had. She had a lot of grace on me, a lot of mercy. She said, just let me know when it happens. And so I would do that. And it didn't go very well because she's of course thinking, oh, well, why don't you stop or well, that's hurtful to her, you know, why are you looking at porn when we're dating and everything's going great? And I had no good answers. So because I didn't like how hard it was for me to deal with, I stop telling her the truth. So I hid this from her. And fast forward several months later. You know, I had just acted out in a real low point where I was visiting a dear priest friend of mine, and I did. He got a confession and I received unworthily. And so there I got home from that trip, and Kristen wanted to talk to me. She had just heard the Catholic therapist say, hey, you really don't want to marry someone who's full blown addicted to porn? Now, if they get better, that's great. If they work on it, that's great. But if they have no intentions of getting better, that's that's not going to end very well. And so the timing was, was really a Holy Spirit thing where it was great timing. I had wanted to stop for for years and I couldn't. And so she said, you can see this therapist or any other therapist. And so I did that. I called that therapist who led me to someone closer to where I lived, went to that therapist, met with him. He also said, hey, you got to go to the 12 step program. You got to go to sex of all. It's anonymous before you come back and see me next week. And so I did that and the guys were great. They said, come to six meetings before you give up and say, this is it for you, come to six and then make a decision. And I've been going weekly ever since then, and that was 14 years ago. So, yeah, by the grace of God, I was able to propose to him. She was comfortable with the sobriety that I had. And, and. Yeah, so with a beautiful daughter now who's really only known me sober, which is, is all by the grace of God. And so that's that's the story I started coaching four years ago all faith denominations. And I still do that. But I also thought I just I'm Catholic and I know that there's resources for Catholics. I know Covenant Eyes has strides and and things like programs like that. But a a is just there's a Holy Spirit thing where I felt, you know, called to do this and, and we can talk more about that later. But that's, that's a quick back back story. I'll stay with my brother. Thank you so much for your vulnerability and sharing your story of recovery. God bless you. God bless your wife and, and daughter. It's, it's an amazing thing how, you know, marriage, family can really, help us become more holy. I would love to hear about how you discovered this call to start coaching, to start Catholics Fight Porn And tell us a little bit about that. Sure. Well, within my coaching, there was a special connection with the Catholics in the group. And it's nothing against anyone else. I coach because I love them and still talk to them. But, you know, one of the guys in the group would say, oh, I just came from adoration. Oh, yeah. I just I was just at confession. And so for me, I know all about that. But moderating and coaching a group, I don't want to dive all into that because I don't want others to feel like this group is taking a turn and it's it's just Catholics in now. I feel like an outsider when in my opinion, recovery is so interconnected. They're the most honest rooms that I've ever been in. You know, I go to church groups and men's groups at church and they're great. But it it doesn't hold a candle to any 12 step meeting or recovery group like I coach, because everybody's sharing the good, the bad and the ugly and so I was I was loving this connection with the Catholics. I was frustrated because almost 15 years ago, I had no idea what was available in the Catholic world for recovery. Now the Protestants, I think they've got it down. They've they have so many amazing resources. But for Catholics specifically, I'd hear talks from Christopher West and Jason ever, these guys that do amazing work. But but it it wasn't recovery per se and I just didn't know what it was. So I think deep down I had always this longing to help my people, to help the Catholics. And I know that there are other Catholic resources out there, but I just felt that what I was doing, let's expand that for Catholics. And it's been really well received by the grace of God. That's amazing how God just kind of guides us where we need to be and what he wants us to be doing. I, I'm so grateful for your work. You know, you're working with so many different people and specifically Catholics, which I think you're right. There's there is kind of a void in some spaces. I think in the last, you know, five, ten years, we've seen more and more organizations stepping forward to really serve Catholic men. Well, you know, I know Covenant Eyes is really focused in that space as well. We have strive 21 that, you know, Matt Fradd helped develop and and that's been a great resource in the Catholic market. But recovery is more than a 21 day program, right? We know that it's it's a long haul and it takes a lot of work. So talk to us a little bit about, the work that you do and the recovery basics. You know, a lot of people are probably wondering like how do I get started? What's step one? And then talk a little bit about that head to heart healing. Like, what does that look like and how does that work? Sure. Well, you know, as far as recovery goes, we have to admit we have a problem. And unfortunately, most of us don't get help until we have something to lose. But I had a friend tell me about 12 step recovery before I ever met my wife. And I thought, oh, that. That's great, and sure, I can benefit from it, but good for them that are going. And it wasn't until I almost lost the woman that I loved that, oh, I'll do anything. Whatever you say, tell me where to go. I'm all in. And so I think we have to admit we have a problem. Most of us don't want to change. You know, we don't want to just join a group when we don't know all about it. But if we are sick and tired of being sick and tired and getting the same results we've always got, let's try something different. Right? So we have to admit we have a problem and that we have to get help, whether that's a therapist, a coach, but, a 12 step program and group like I coach, we have to reach out and and take guidance. And then it's things like, you know, stopping our behaviors, what trips us up. You know, that's why I love covenant series in my opinion, it's the number one filtering software out there. And the reports and the accountability are top notch. So you know, I know that it's like, oh, my wife's going to see what side I was on. I better not go there. And so we have to lock down our devices. We have to put boundaries and guardrails. Whatever's going to get us in trouble is what we have to attack and lock down, and we have to start connecting with others. Doctor Gabor Matteo so is that the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it's connection. When we connect with one another, we don't feel isolated. We don't feel alone. That I'm the only one that most struggling with this. That Steve is the only one in line for confession, for looking at Paulie. Masturbate. It's not true. There's a lot of us that struggle, and once we connect with one another, we feel a part of instead of apart from. And so, there is a long list of things to do, you know, really, addiction is a bad coping mechanism. I reached out for porn because I didn't feel like I was good enough. That was a core wound of mine. I didn't measure well. I wasn't as good as that person or that person. And when I saw porn, it filled the gap. And so, now this is really it's sinful and it's destructive, and it'll take everything from me. So I can't use this to fill the gap anymore. But what does fill the gap? I think it starts with getting into recovery. It's all about God. It's all about Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. But I was doing, you know, I was going to man. So every day into whatever reason that wasn't enough for me to to stop acting out. So recovery plus, you know, God, the sacraments, the Holy Spirit, Jesus un it really it's taking guidance from somebody who's a step ahead of you. That's what works. I got into recovery, and anyone who was sober longer than me or I got a sponsor. But in a recovery group, if you're not working the 12 steps, that's okay. Look to someone who's ahead of you, who's been sober longer than you have, who's has more experience than you have, and take all the good advice you can from them. And really, it's about change. It's about action. We can say all these things, but if we don't do the things, we won't get what we want. And that's really the head to heart healing transformation that I love to talk about. I thought I had a quote from Saint Augustine, and maybe it's maybe he didn't say this, but it was a quote that essentially was that the longest distance a person will travel in their life is from their head to their heart. It's about 18 inches. See, we can we can know how to stay sober. We can. We could have three years of sexual sobriety, and our wife still might want us to sleep on the couch or out of the house because we haven't changed, you know, recovery is about finding the root cause of this, finding these underlying issues and changing. It's our defects of character and and it's our bad habits, you know, and we have to be willing to change. Again, a lot of that comes from these core values that we all have. And be willing to look at them, address them, and do some deeper work on them. And I think ultimately the that hurt transformation is the whole person. It's our identity, and it's willing to go to any lengths to improve, to, you know, if if you need to build trust with your wife, you've got to be willing to do whatever it takes and maybe have to read some books. Maybe you have to go to a workshop, maybe you have to join a recovery group, or go to a 12 step meeting, or make a phone call every single day. Whatever that looks like. You got to be willing to do it. You can't push back and fight back and say, well, I'm sober. Don't look at me. I'm sober. You know, look, I don't want to dive into that. That brings up shame for me. Yes, yes it does. But there is a way out and we don't stay stuck there. That is so good. I love when you mentioned, like, doing whatever it takes, you know, because I think it was in one of your podcast episodes, on your channel there that you were talking a little bit about even, like taking drastic steps with apps and locking down devices and installing Covenant Eyes and all of those different things. I mean, sometimes we have to take dramatic steps in our lives to really kind of protect ourselves from ourselves because the danger is online. I mean, it's everywhere. Social media is filled with pornography and, you know, if that's something that you struggle with, you really have to put in some guardrails in your life. So talk to us a little bit about some of the guardrails that maybe you have personally put in your life on this journey of recovery. Because I think often people think, you know, they can do all these steps, but yeah, I don't want to get rid of my apps. You know, I really like being on, you know, Instagram. But that might not be a possibility for us. Like when we're in recovery for sure. And I go I go back to attacking the main issue that's leading you to doubt. Nowadays, you can access, you know, TVs are smart. You know, they have the internet. You know, your Xbox has the internet, tablets, you know, a Kindle. I mean, what does it get to the internet anymore? But for me, it was my phone, I think when I got into recovery, had an iPhone. And it was fascinating for me. Again, close to 15 years ago, I ended up having 128 different apps on my phone that needed to be deleted because you can find ways to get to the internet, because what happened was I knew Safari was a problem. Browsing the web was a problem. So I could very easily take off Safari. You take off browsing in a friend and the program had a passcode, so I had no access, but I had all these apps, and so I found my way to the internet and would act out. And it was painful because every time I acted out, I had to tell my wife. And it was brutal. It was so hard for me, I hated it. So I want I wanted to change, you know, and I wanted to change. I wanted to be better. But the problem was, I'd go several months of being sober, and then I'd be frustrated by something. I'd want an escape, or I was bored and. And then I'm looking. Then I'm on an episode. Oh, I wonder if I can get to Google here. So I was one step away from needing a dumb phone. I don't think I knew of Covenant Eyes back then, and I'm sure that you were around, but I just was familiar. I would have done that because I would have done anything to keep my iPhone. You know, back then the dumb phone would have been a flip phone. Now they have dumb phones that look really sleek and and sharp, you know, so it little. That'd be easy today. You know, I was just going to, you know, a life down phone, but down. So, so it's just willing to do whatever it takes. And and I would have done Covenant Eyes. I was ready to get a flip phone. And it wasn't until I, I rooted out every app that got to the internet. And once I did that, I wasn't tempted to go looking and combining with doing deeper work, you know? And I was able to maintain sobriety for a lot longer. And those temptations, they lessened, you know, over time. Well, yeah. Thank you for that. One of the things I want to make sure we have time to talk about is in your work. So if I understand it right, you, you, you work with you work with guys, you work with married couples, and you work with people in groups. I'd love to hear a little bit about your approach or maybe some of the things you do kind of in each category. Sure. So, I'll, I do one on one coaching. You know, if a guy wants that dedicated time, we can meet one on one. I offer a free. You know, you can book a free 15, 20 minute call if you want to learn more. That's available to anyone on my website, which is CatholicsFightPorn.com. But, in my recovery group, it's a Holy Spirit driven format where, we have topics with a lot of topics I bring in, you know, 12 step recovery principles with the Catholic faith. So I bring in Scripture, I bring in the Catechism, which is the teaching authority of the church. I bring in, the wisdom from the saints who have fought similar battles. They fought, lost, and they fought all these different things that came. We need to incorporate in our daily life, talk prayer and, and so, I really love how our topics go and that all the guys check in again, they check in on the good, the bad and the ugly. And it is this fun, secure, safe place to share. And and so that's the group coaching. And then. Yeah, with the couples I am a, I've been fully trained to do disclosures. So I'm a disclosure coach. And this is this is not not everybody needs to do this. But when a wife needs to know, what all the husband has been doing, the extent of his acting out, she doesn't trust him because we lie a lot. Yeah. I lied to my wife. I didn't tell her the full truth. She thought she was dating a different version of who she really was dating. And that's come in for a lot of us. But, so full disclosure is where the husband will share his whole story. And answer any questions she hears. It's typically followed up with a polygraph so that it's not a criminal polygraph, but it's just a polygraph, which just measures that what he has shared to her is true and accurate, because he could lie through the disclosure and then you're still not getting anywhere if that's the case. So that oftentimes really encourages him. Maybe if for the first time ever, to get completely honest. And so so I do disclosures and I work with, other coaches that will coach the betrayed spouse and I'll work with the addict, the husband. So and I know that that can be flipped. It's not always, you know, the husband who's the addict. You know, I do know that women are addicted as well. But that's that's what I, what I do right now. How do people get connected with your ministry and learn more about the different programs and coaching services that you provide? My website again is CatholicsFightPorn.com. And I have I'm on Instagram at Catholic Recovery. And hey, if if Instagram is a problem, we talked about that. Stay off of Instagram. But you can also email me at Steve@CatholicsFightPorn.com and we can go from there that you can sign up for a one on one, you know, session on my website. You can join the group coaching on my website if you want to learn more. Like I said, you can book a free call. And if you want to get Covenant Eyes, use code CFP for Catholics Fight Porn. Use CFP for 30 days for free. So yeah, so different ways to get Ahold of me and different resources out there. That's awesome. And we will put all those links in our show notes. So for any of our listeners that might be driving or working out at the gym, and hopefully you are working out at the gym, new year, new year, right. So yeah, definitely check out all those links. You know, in closing today, Steve, we'd love to just have you share maybe some words of encouragement to the listeners out there, because recovery can be it can be hard and it's hard not just for the person that's going through recovery, but for their spouse as well. So we have, you know, spouses, we have, people that are struggling with pornography themselves. And we also have ministry leaders. But listen to this podcast. So can you offer some encouragement to those folks out there as they go through these things or are helping someone else go through recovery? Sure. I would say, don't do what I did, you know, do if you are hearing this and you're not in recovery, don't do what I did, which has nothing, I did nothing when I first heard about recovery. Yet I knew I had a problem and I knew I needed help. So if you if you know you have a problem and you know you need help, reach out to me or anyone you go to assured, find a meeting. You know, there's meetings online. There's readings on the phone. There's try to find the closest meeting in your area. That's that's an easy free way to get started in recovery. But, to the single person, the cool thing is I am coaching a few single guys because I coach single, engaged, married, you know, from have grandfathers in the group and, you know, a wide age range. But, you know, the coolest thing is if you're a single guy, recovery will make you better recovery. I mean think about this. So you struggle with porn and nothing you're doing is working. Now imagine you get into recovery, you break free and you meet the woman of your dreams. And you can now give her this gift guide. You can tell her I was addicted to porn for ten, 15, 20 years. I learned about recovery, I got better, I've been sober for a year and a half and I'm ready. You know, if you're engaged, think that it may have happened with you. See you. I know you, you got well and you've been well, and that's so awesome. And hats off to you. But if you're engaged, this recovery will set you up for the best marriage ever. It. And marriage is still really hard. If even when you're sober. So now imagine how much harder it is when you're acting out, when you're not present, when you're being already more selfish. The people are hurting are, you know, if you're a pastor, if you're a priest. There has to be a lot of shame. There are a lot of isolation. You know, I know that, pastors that are not Catholic, they can lose everything if word got out. I have a friend, Mark Denison, who runs a group for pastors. So it's a safe, secure, closed group. It's it's anonymous in there. Yeah. You you can get better, as a pastor and and not lose everything. Not lose your ministry, not lose your family in Mark Mark's ministries called. There's still hope. And I know he's done a lot for Covenant Eyes over the years, but, if you're a Catholic priest, you know, I'd be happy to to work with you. I know Father Sean Corley does a lot with Catholic priests. I believe he's in Nebraska, but doing nothing is only going to perpetuate the problem. And so getting started, getting on the right track. When I was in Chicago, I was in recovery groups with priests and and sober for a long time. And so, you know, I'll keep it anonymous, but I can only imagine that they were a much better version of themselves as a sober priest, doing well, able to connect with his parishioners better, and not feel that shame and and that, really despair that comes along with this. So I would just say, just just reach out for help and, and you'll be happy you did, even though it is awkward and it is hard in the beginning. But you you pick up friends, and the last thing you'll say is, I came into recovery to stop looking at your stop acting out. And what I've learned is that recovery has helped every single area of my life from how I do my job at work, how I am as a single now, a brother, but most importantly, holy and at home, as a husband, as a father. And it certainly helps me feel like a better disciple of our Lord, who's, you know, I know that we always need confession. We always need forgiveness of our sins. But now it's on a monthly basis, not 3 to 5 times a week basis. So recovery helps all aspects of your life because all you're doing is improving on yourself. Thank you so much for all of that, Steve. And yes, I can attest to what you're saying. If you can kick it before getting married, you will have the best possible marriage you can. Really? So absolutely correct. Yeah, that was so good. And your humble spirit and just your love and passion to serve people and help them find that freedom that is just so amazing. And and we're so grateful for your willingness to be there and to disciple others in the way that you have been discipled in this space. So thank you so much for sharing your story and the work that you're doing. I think, you know, just to kind of close today's episode in one of your podcasts, you actually used a quote from Saint Francis talking about the temptation of self-reliance. And I just want to close today to call people to not lean into your own self reliance. We need community. We need one another. And we're not going to overcome this alone. We need our Heavenly Father. We need the strength that he provides us, and then we need community to get through this. So I just want to kind of wrap up today's episode with that encouragement as well. And any final words, Steve, before we end today's show. Yeah, I there's a sobering, phrase in recovery that our own best thinking got us here. And so what that means is, if you're in recovery, it goes back to you. It's really essential to take guidance from others, to try something that is uncomfortable, that might feel awkward in my group. One thing I forgot to mention is that I encourage connection. I encourage phone calls. Any of my guys listening shout out to you they get tired of. I'm guessing they get tired of hearing me drill into their head a minimum of one phone call a day miss. Three calls a day if you can. You know if you if your time allows for that and the flow of your day doesn't need a doesn't need to be a 30 minute phone call, this can be done. The two minute call, a four minute call. So much happens in a day that that if we suppress all these emotions, these fears, these endeavors, these resentments, these boredom, pain, you know, these wounds that we have, and then we get to the end of our night. And it's taken such a toll on us that we just want to relax. We just want to look at something. Oh, dang, I just ripped it out. But how do we how did that happen? I didn't wake up wanting to act out. Well, it's it's everything that life throws at us, which is a lot. And so connection and I just that's the cool thing about being in a recovery group and particularly mine is called Finally Free, but yet there's a network. And so while we only meet once a week, they're encouraged to connect every single day. And that's the accountability that you need to stay sober for the long haul. So yeah. And we if we do what we always did, we're going to get what we always got. So we we can't white knuckle it. We can't do it all on our own. It does require humility, but it is worth it. So good. Thank you so much, Steve, for joining us today. And, Theo, as we wrap up today's episode, do you have any key takeaways? But maybe you just want to highlight at the close of the episode. I really loved, Steve's advice to everybody, which is do do something. This is something that if it's in your life, you definitely want to do, you want to set it aside and you'll you'll thank you'll thank God you'll thank yourself for it. As someone who's been through it as well, just to not live with shame, not live with secrecy, be able to fully connect with your spouse, to be able to fully connect with your people. If you are in church leadership, your friends, with God not be going to confession all the time. If you're a Catholic, that's, that's really, that's really fantastic, Steve, you've definitely shared a lot of, wisdom with us, and we've been so, so grateful to, to have you on the podcast. And we're so grateful to know that you are giving yourself over to doing this work, to paying it forward, and to helping helping people, helping marriages, helping groups of people, helping people be in relationship with each other. If no one said thank you, if no one said, what? This is amazing work you're doing. Hear it from us. Thanks for the work you're doing, Steve. It's amazing. It's important. You are saving. You're really saving lives, and you're saving people's well-being. So thank you, Steve. And, keep it up. We are so, so happy and grateful to have you as an affiliate and an ally in this mission. So thank you, Steve. Well, hope. Word of God. And, it's so worth it. There's nothing like living in integrity. And so it's really worth it. And, thank you to you all for having me. It's very humbling to be on your show. I Covenant Eyes is the leader and anyone out there that needs help with their devices, it's going to filter things out. You can learn all about it at CovenantEyes.com, but it's it's also a great way for your to be your girlfriend, your fiancé, your wife to feel safe that you're browsing when they're not early or late at night or whatever. That you're just doing the right thing. You know you're not going behind their back and they can see what you're looking at. So, if you don't have Covenant Eyes and you have a feeling you might need it, encourage you to to get that to check it out. 30 days free with CFP as a promo code. Try it out. And, they're an amazing company, so thank you for all that you do. You're you're such a leader and and even all the resources you have, your blogs and your podcasts or things. So thank you, Karen, and thank you. See you. God bless. Thank you. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in to this episode of The Covenant Eyes Podcast. Make sure that you like and subscribe. Don't forget to do that. It helps us keep this podcast free and accessible to everybody. Last year you helped us get to the 300,000 download mark. So thank you so much for all of the listeners that have helped us get there. But keep sharing the word, keep sharing the good news and keep sharing these ministries, these great people and ministries that we bring on the show. Because together we can overcome this, but we've got to do it together. So thanks for tuning in to this episode. God bless. Take care. We'll see you next time on The Covenant Eyes Podcast.