When? Hey, everybody. I just want to remind you to be sure to like and subscribe to the podcast. It is really helpful to us. We keep this program free to all of our listeners and it's because you are sharing the word with others, so make sure you like it and share it. It really helps us get the word out and keep this programing free for you. And with that, Rob, do you want to introduce today's guest? I do, we have one of our own and a new employee at Covenant Eyes. Her title is Recovery Specialist. So it's a newer position for us. But Heidi Cooper has joined coming eyes. Heidi, welcome to the Covenant Eyes podcast. Thank you. Well, hey, Heidi, would you mind just giving us a bit of your background and how you ended up at Covenant Eyes? Yeah. My background is I. My husband and I were pastors for 24 years, and I've always just had a heart for, addiction recovery. And it's part of my own story of what I experienced. And, God, just so, changed me in such a powerful way. And I've always really wanted to be there for other people and to be able to educate people and be able to be a voice in the church, about pornography, because it's not something you hear in the church very much often. And how I came to Covenant Eyes is, I, I'm almost finished my master's and pastoral counseling with a specialization in addiction and recovery. I'll be done in December. And, I also have a piece app, which is a pastoral, sexual addiction professional certifications through its app. So that's something else I pursued because I really just wanted to learn more. I wanted to be able to help people. Really in a very intricate and deep way, but also in their relationship with Jesus. Because and and that's what really impacts everything when it comes to sexual addiction or any addiction. But that's always been a passion of my heart. And so what I'm doing in with, with Covenant Eyes is, as a recovery specialist is, helping write new content, specifically a lot more for women. We have a lot for men, but we don't have as much for women. So I'm helping brainstorm ideas. I'm actually in the process right now of, kind of converting a course on relapse of, what you can learn from relapse. I'm kind of adjusting it to be more targeted for women because how when men and women, you know, deal with things and even process their own addiction in her is different for men and for women. So I'm helping revamp, that course for women. That's awesome. And is that course going to end up in our Victory App? Is that where that will live when it's finished? Okay, great. So, you know, speaking of the Victory App, we haven't talked a whole lot about that on some of our episodes recently, but I do want to highlight that because the Victory App is it's kind of the one stop shop. If you are looking for any type of recovery based education around pornography, addiction and recovery, how do you do you, can you share maybe just a couple of the great courses that we have in there for listeners that maybe are not too familiar with our Victory App, which is free to download, by the way, anything that stands out in your mind on the Victory App? Yeah, there's a lot of great courses as I've pretty much read almost all of them now. And the one that was The Relapse, one of what you can learn from or relapse. I know a lot of people tend to see relapse. It's so negative and they get discouraged and think there are horrible person, but there's actually a very healthy part of learning how to recover is to learn. You know what? When you relapse, how you can see yourself and not to put yourself down. And yeah, there's a lot of tools in there. But the victory courses is something that I think is, needs to be brought forth a lot more because I think, like you said, I think a lot of people don't know we have them. And I didn't even know we had so many courses when I came on to covenant. And they are amazing. There's so many things. There's certain ones that are for men, there are certain ones that are for women that are particular to them, really goes into the deep, intricacies of why we even go to porn of, you know, abuse, how trauma and abuse can impact, people's porn use. Yeah, a lot of great resources. So I really encourage anyone to go and get victory because like I said, it is free and there's a lot of good content. You can learn more about yourself and just about the dangers of porn. The also the effects that it has on your actual brain and not just your body or spiritually, but how it literally impacts your brain physically. So, yeah, a lot of great learning on there. Yeah. No, that's great idea. And you're so right. Most people don't know. They they know of Covenant Eyes for Educational resources, which we've done a lot of those in the past. We've had some recovery, you know, based based, resources. But now we're really leaning into that lane and putting so much more into the Victory App. We've all of the recovery articles that are in victory are all, reviewed by certified counselors and therapist. And, so we've we've got that expertise. Now, we brought in you with your expertise behind that. And I love that you have the spiritual background as a pastor, too. So you bring both pieces into that which is so important. I, I do want to ask you, you know, with that background know we deal with the church, with pastors, leaders all of the time. And there still are so many pastors and ministry workers that are struggling themselves with pornography and other things. And it's it's still a taboo subject in a tough thing for pastors and leaders to come forward, with your experience as a pastor of going through all of that and, and now your work as a therapist, what would you say to any pastors, ministry leaders that are listening today? What encouragement would you give to them as far as, coming forward and getting help? Yeah, I think I would say, I know that there's a lot of fear behind, bringing forth a topic to the church, and it can make pastors, very uneasy of how will people respond. Or sometimes pastors don't even know what to do. For people who may be struggling, I know in our case, in our church, I had my own history in recovering that. So it it was a lot easier. But my own personal opinion is that pastors have to go first. If you want to confront the issue of pornography and addiction in your church, you have to be willing to overcome your own addiction if there is one. And there has to be communication from the pulpit about pornography, about addiction, about masturbation, openly. I know that makes pastors uncomfortable. But honestly, in the church that we, the churches that we pastored, the more that me and Jim were open about our own struggles, which can be scary for a lot of a lot of people. But honestly, there is power and your testimony and we have seen that, in a very powerful way in the churches that we pastored, the one of even one of the first church we pastored, I was told by a leader over me to not share my story, because of what people would think and what it might do to me and what you know. And I did it anyway because I felt like this is what God wanted me to do to share my story. And honestly, we were inundated with people coming forward and saying, I've never heard a pastor say that I struggle to. Can you please help me? I mean, it just opened up a well of of people being open and feeling safe. So I think for pastors, you have to be willing to go there, because if you do, people will feel safe and it will give them courage to be able to face this too. If they can overcome this, then God can do this in my life too. So I think for pastors, one thing is, transparency and vulnerability. I mean, there's definitely boundaries with that. But I think, as we see now, like even statistically it's over 50% of pastors, are reporting, watching and struggling with pornography. So that is huge, which means half of our pastors are struggling themselves and usually don't get help. So for all ministers, I would say, and we've got to go first and we've got to allow God to change us and to be free before we can really help others be free. I think that's so good. And it's a good reminder for our listeners. But the going first, it can be really scary. And that vulnerability is is oftentimes very painful and hard. But even if you're not in leadership in your church and you're listening to this podcast, you know, sometimes that testimony that you share and the courage it takes to do that will really help someone else in the church. So as lay leaders in the church, you know, what advice do you have for people who maybe, you know, their pastor isn't talking about this from the pulpit, but they they're connected to the small groups and they have a passion to help people find freedom because they themselves have found freedom. What advice do you offer for them, Heidi? Yeah, for lay leaders or just anyone who is in a position of influence and in church, I think it all comes through relationship. I think having transparent, deep relationships with people is when these kind of things, can be talked about and, and in sharing, I think small groups and areas like that can be great places for people to feel safe. It's not a huge, big crowd. And, I think. There would there's a, there would be a lot more healing in the church if we all came from a place of being vulnerable and transparent. And that's hard, especially when you've been rejected for your transparency or it's been used against you. But I would encourage, anyone to just you take little steps. It's not like you have to share everything at once, but taking steps to be in people's lives, to be in deep enough relationship to know what their hearts are, to know what their wounds are. Just it it creates a culture of safety. And I think anything you can do to create a culture of safety, healing will start to take place. Yeah. That's so true. I mean, we see it over and over. I mean, when when we bring things into light, darkness flees. And that's such an important piece in all of this healing and in restoration. Another topic, Heidi, that often comes up for us in the church is this issue of counseling. It's so powerful and so needed and so helpful. But often our churches are reluctant, are suspicious in some cases of of counseling and professional counseling. You've been both sides of this again, that I'd love that expertise. What, what do you have? What insight do you have around that topic to help churches and, be less afraid of this and embrace this a little bit more and, and use it? I think there's, a wrong, perception of counseling. I think counseling all through the Bible. I mean, you don't see an actual like, okay, I'm a professional counseling Bible, but, you see, Jesus, I mean, counseling people, you know, the woman at the well where he didn't just come out and tell her you need to live. You leave your simple life. There was a process to it of, her trusting him and him revealing things and, even Mary Magdalene in the Bible says that when she was healed, it's a different word that's used, then like an immediate healing, it's it's more or it's called therapy or something. I think the word is and it it was a continual it means. And over and over and over it wasn't a one time, you know, deal. A lot of people use Scripture. Well, why do you need counseling when God heals all your wounds? When, you know, I've heard people say, oh, well, God's my counselor, and that that is true. The Holy Spirit is our counselor, reveals deep things, but God never intended for us to heal our wounds alone. You know the Scripture. It says, confess your sins to one another so that you may be healed people. God intended for us to be healed and community. And, so I would encourage anyone who really doesn't think counseling to really seek out and scripture, all the places where there's a process in healing and in the Scripture it says, you know, the renewing of our mind. That is something to where is a continual process that God has to do in us to be healed and to be restored. It's not a one time thing. And yeah, I guess that would be my answer is that counseling is amazing. If I had not had counseling in my life and, trauma therapy for PTSD that I have and for, you know, all kinds of relationship problems, God has used people in my life through counseling counselors to be Jesus himself to me. And there's something about me experiencing Jesus through another human that has brought such deep healing to me. And then we can then do that for other people. So I think that counseling is amazing. I think it is important. I think any time that you feel stuck, that allowing yourself to be counseled by someone who has been trained, who has experience with Jesus, maybe a relationship further than you have is just there is nothing like it. And I think that's the way that God intended. I think that's great. It reminds me of Proverbs 1114, where there is no guidance for people fails, but in the abundance of counselors there is safety, right? And I think the key to the, you know, I, I often hear the same pushback about the counseling aspect, but I think there's this there's a difference. We're talking about biblical counseling. We're talking about, you know, people that are going to Christian counselors, people that have a biblical foundation. We're not recommending that you go to necessarily a secular counselor. Maybe that's right for you, but, you know, there are trained professionals who also share your faith. And so all the counseling will be centered around, you know, certainly, walking with Christ. So I think there's a difference, too, that people need to understand. Right? Yeah. There is a big difference, between I mean, there's some secular counseling that is is needed and that is and that is good. But allowing someone else to, who is listening to the Holy Spirit, who is open and who is able to help us understand Scripture even in deeper ways or where, you know, there's a lot of times where we have lies. I mean, a lot of honestly, a lot of the issues that we go for in counseling, they're really lies that we've been believing about ourselves. And God breaks down those lies and, and even then reveals himself in those. But yeah, I think if we can entrust, someone who who has been trained, and not only just with the mind, but the heart and the body, you know, a lot of times things of anxiety where we have to be taught how to breathe again and, and how to bring our nervous system down. Those are all things that are good to submit yourself to someone who who knows how to help in all of those ways, not just spiritually, but body, mind, and spirit. Can you give us any kind? I know it's so early for you and in this role and still just getting your feet wet and what you're doing, but what can we look forward to? Through through your role in our recovery ministries and all of that? Any insight to where things are going? Yeah. I think one of the greatest things that I have to offer is I think my transparency and vulnerability and and just not beating around the bush, I love to kind of rip the Band-Aid off and not in a, in a, in a gentle way. Not in a, you know, a harsh way. But, my role here is to, I think, bring new maybe insight to our recovery education of, a lot of to focused on abuse. I've been trained a lot in trauma and abuse and have experienced that even myself. So come with, I come with a real a burden and a passion and a empathy for people who have experienced, sexual abuse or abuse in any kind of way. And how impacts children at such a young age to go to porn and to go to sexual behaviors to medicate. That, that abuse and pain. So I really have a heart to bring light to that, and to be a voice, for how women struggle. It's not something we hear a lot of of women being just raw and open and honest about how it impacts us as women. So that's another thing that I'm hoping, to offer. And also, I love, I love sharing my story. So it's my story can help anyone. I'm willing to do it. And I really have seen the impact of hearing other people's stories. And it given me the courage to to share my own or even the courage to pursue healing. So that's something that something else I hope to offer. I think that's amazing and I think it is so needed. I'm so honored to have you joining our team, because I think there there has been kind of a a need to fill that, that space. And so I'm just grateful for your willingness to step in and to help us in that area and specifically, you know, addressing the issues that women are struggling with, too, because we have a rise coming out this fall. And that's going to really bring a lot of new women into the recovery journey. And so I think having your wisdom and your guidance and your passion and empathy for others is going to be instrumental in us really helping people find freedom. And I I'm just grateful that you've decided to take on this task because it is it is hard work. It is really hard work. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I'm excited. Just to see what God does and not just through me, but like in me. Even by working for Covenant Eyes, it's wonderful. Like, Anais is wonderful and I've, I was explaining to someone actually today of, just the camaraderie I feel working at a place like Covenant Eyes and kind of where you get a sense of like, these are my people. And, we're all on the same mission to see people free and recovered and to experience Jesus in it. So yeah, I'm really excited. Well, excellent. Well, Heidi, thank you for joining us today and sharing a little bit about your background and the work you're going to be doing here. As Karen said, we're so grateful and thankful that you have joined the team here. So to our listeners, thank you for watching today. I hope you learned a little bit more about where we're heading and, I'm sure you'll be excited about these new contributions and, and, work that's coming up. So, again, thanks for watching. And we'll catch you next time.