Hey everybody, welcome back to the Covenant Eyes Podcast, Karen Potter here live at NRB 2024. Oh my gosh, we are just packed with interviews with amazing people that we're meeting here at NRB. Rob, you ran into this gentleman earlier and he's got quite a story, quite a ministry. And tell us about that. I did, I did. Our guest today is Loren Norris and has just sounds like a wonderful ministry. And I'm anxious to talk with you. So, Loren, tell us a little bit about yourself and about your ministry. Certainly. You know, my primary call, my assignment on earth is to equip the saints for the work of the kingdom. And I've known that's been my role for over 30 years. But I also know, you know, when David and Daniel and even Jesus, around that 9 to 15 years old, the enemy came in like a flood, right? The enemy came in and like a flood, the Lord raised up a standard against and he came into my life in the form of being molested at nine years old. The result was I spent the next 25 years addicted to sexuality and pornography, and I brought it into my marriage, and ten years into my marriage, my wife challenged me and she said those four words that no man wants to hear. We need to talk. yeah. That's worse than turn your head and cough. And so I, I went for the rest of the day knowing, you know, I'm fat and I'm unlovable. Unlovable. I'm addicted. My life is a mess. I can't get anything right. I know she's going to say I found somebody better. I'm moving on. I'm done with you. I'm out. It's over. Yeah. And so I didn't know if I want to be angry or just throw up. And at the end of the day, we sat down on the edge of the bed together, and she looked at me and she said, when you say to me that you're fat and unlovable, you're asking me to believe a lie. I know that God sent you to be a gift to me. I know everything that you've done and I've forgiven you. I love you just like you are. And I need you to see you the way I do. Now, if those had not been our words. If it had been. I'm done. I'm out. I'm over. I probably would not have made it home. It would have been the end of our marriage, for sure, and possibly the end of me. But she changed the story I was telling me. Yes. And so I dedicated myself from then, not only to getting free of that addiction, but to finding the five steps that God walked me through to find freedom from that addiction and to make those public through the five battle strategies of a victorious warrior. So that was the the second book that I wrote, and now I spend most of my time teaching people to tell better stories, better stop telling the stories that are alive and tell the ones that are true. Amazing. Oh my gosh. Well, that is quite a testimony and quite a story. So talk to us a little bit about what you are doing through your ministry, so that our listeners get an idea of how they can work with you, how they can learn more about your work. Yes. So through five Battle strategies.com, we are launching for the first time ever. I've always done just one on one or like small groups in churches. Yeah, we're launching the first ever zoom class where we'll be going for ten weeks through the exercises, through the process. Any kind of addiction that's not just about pornography. What I've discovered is all of those things we call addiction love, drama, sexuality, pornography, chocolate, alcohol, drugs. If it's an addiction, we're the slave. And it's the slave masters, slaves to sin. The problem is we think that behavioral modification will change it and it won't. When we confess that sin now, the solution can start. But until we can call an addiction to chocolate the same as an addiction to porn, we're destroying what God designed. And so we can confess that there is no repentance. And until there is no repentance, there is no forgiveness. And then we've also got to choose to forget, because I know I was an addict long enough. And just like chocolate, I mean, if somebody says rich dark chocolate, I'm like, I can do that on my tongue. I can taste it, right? The same was true of my addiction to burn ography. I didn't have to have the books or the magazines or even the videos online anymore. I could remember what I did that was so bad Hugh Hefner wouldn't publish it, and all I had to do was recall. And, you know, the subconscious mind goes right back to that path. It feels just like it's happening now. Yes. And that's the same with drama. That's the same with codependency. That's the same with narcissism. Yeah. And so this online course will be let's walk through the psychology of what you're addicted to. And let's find the place to identify that is sin so that you can confess to God. This is and this is not a bad idea. This is sin, right? Then you can repent of that. Change your mind, take every thought captive, make it obedient. Think on these things which are holy and true and pure, and just replace those thoughts. And then suddenly the behavior changes. How ironic is that? And then you can ask for God to forgive that. And then you can forget because he has. And that doesn't mean I can't recall. It means I choose not to. And so the online course that we'll start on March 5th, we'll walk through that, that process for ten weeks to just engage anybody that's brave enough to jump online with us and go through the course. And it'll be pretty easy for them to get help. Oh, that's that is excellent. The one thing you mentioned earlier is just how Satan traps us with lies about who we are, but raised, or you know, who we are in Christ is where we've got to get to. And and so can you talk a little bit about how you help people get out of those lies of that? Satan is kind of bound us with to really who we who we are as sons and daughters of Christ. Well, I'll tell you, God's given me a really unique gift in that. And and I say unique because what most people pay me for, if I told them, I'm going to help you get over your addictions, they'd be like, you know. No. but instead, I find that when I tell them I'm going to help you tell better stories better, they're like, oh, well, I'm writing a book, or I have a podcast, or I'm going to be on the platform, and they want public speaking coaching, you know? And so what happens is I say, well, tell me your story. And most of the time that first call is three hours and they talk 98% of the time. And I take a lot of copious notes. Yeah. And then I look back at that story and I'm like, okay, so tell me this story in a little more detail. And usually what happens is they'll tell the story and then I'll retell the same story, and then I'll say right out the story, you heard me say, now, if you've done any work in some psychology at all, you know that people write out what they're triggered by, even if you didn't actually say that. And so when I ask them to write it out, they look at me and they go, well, you said this, this and this. And I'm like, that's funny. I didn't actually say that. Let's go back and listen to the recording. They're like, but that's what I heard. I'm like, see, that's your subconscious mind lying to you. That's where the enemy steps in. Yeah. The story that you're hearing in your head is the one that's coming from your heart, which is deceitfully wicked and no one can know it. And we have to tame it through the blood of Christ. Now, I don't go into all that. What I say is. But maybe if you listen to the one that you said, you'll probably find those trigger words in your speech. Not my version. Yeah, because you're saying what you're feeling, not what you're hearing. And when you can change that, your power on the platform magnifies. When you can speak truth instead of speaking your emotion, it's amplified. And that's what we really want. And in the end, what happens is after 6 or 7 months of working with people, yeah, they're like, I'm in. I actually had a woman come in and she said, I thank you for convincing my husband not to run for political office. I said, I did no such thing. She said, I know, I know. What you told him was that he couldn't be a responsible man and a responsible husband if he was going to follow this other course. And thank you for giving my husband back. I'm like, my job is to write speeches for his politics, she said, I know what you did and I know what you said you did, and that writing that story internally changes everything. And it's a form of prayer and it's a form of meditation. Then there's everything God told us to do, but it's got to be based on the word. So I usually don't tell him it comes from the Bible until it starts to take its effect. That's amazing. So your wife sounds like an amazing woman. I mean, that your testimony, your story here, I mean, she was a rock through what had to have been a very painful time in your marriage. So talk to me a little bit about your wife and what her role is in the ministry now, and how she's using what she experienced to help other people. So the first time she was asked to speak at a conference is called a Thrive conference, and she was asked to do a breakout room. Yeah, she's not a public speaker by her own definition. In fact, she says about eight words a year. but her heart is so deep and her wisdom is so rich, and grace is just drips from her. And when she began to speak, everybody in the room was just they get real quiet because she's real quiet. And when she was done, somebody said, you just have this incredible quiet power. Well, a couple of years later, we were asked to speak in Atlanta in a small church, and we were doing a tag team thing. Yeah. And so she would speak a little, and then I would speak a little, and she would speak a little. And she got up there and they said, how did you learn to save your marriage? And she said, well, there were two things, really, when I began praying for him because he wasn't being the man of God that I thought I married. I kept praying, God change him. God changed him. God changed him. And God said, honey, I'm not trying to change him. I'm trying to change you. She said that was hard, but the first thing God told me was speak to him as the man of God. I've called him to be, not the man you see in him now. Wow. And the old Carnegie said, you have a man of fine reputation to live up to, and he will. John Maxwell says, see, everybody has a ten. And when she began to honor me in ways that I didn't deserve, something in me said, I have to live up to that honor. That was good. Some psychology. Right? But then she said something that everybody in the room just kind of went, what she said, I learned to build boundaries and not walls. And so I, I had to think on that for a minute. And everybody in the room was like, yeah. And then somebody actually said, can you explain that? Yes. And she said, I don't know. And I said, okay, let me, let me take a stab at it. You tell me if I'm right. If you've ever been to The Cheesecake Factory, it's a 32 page menu, and everything from Asian to cheesecake to Mexican food is incredible. That's the mind of the porn addict. When he walks into the bedroom with his wife. I want a little of that. Let's try some of this. I'll have some of that. It better all be top notch. Better all be gourmet. You ever been to Cane's Chicken? Once you get a cane's chicken or baby's chicken okay. Chicken. Chicken. It's. Don't ask for mac and cheese. No Mac. There's no hamburgers on that menu. It's chicken fries and slaw. Baby. You don't like the slaw. You can get more sauce but you're not getting anything else. That's all there is to offer. I know so many guys that I've worked with over the last 18 years that will say to me, she found out I had a for Him magazine or a Victoria's Secrets magazine, and she threw me out of the house. She took the kids and she left and went to her mom's. She built walls that were impenetrable. Our relationship was done. Yeah. She made me sleep on the couch for six months because she found this magazine. Our relationship was done. My wife said, our relationship isn't done, but there's some limitations. When you walk in that bedroom door, you can have all of this. You want all the chicken, fries and slaw you want. You can have all of me you want and nothing else. There's nothing on the menu but me right? That began to change the parameters that began to change. And I used to be a real jerk. That's probably the meanest word I'm willing to say on your podcast, but is not the worst. I've thought it myself. Yes, even when counseling guys, I was saying things like, look, I didn't marry Martha Stewart. My house is never clean and pretty unready for a guest. I didn't marry Betty Crocker. And if the instructions are not on the box, don't expect you to cook it. And I didn't marry Cindy Crawford. She's not the most beautiful woman in the world. The one I married was the one that accepted me like I was. And in my pride, in my arrogance, I thought that was gracious when I realized how bad those words hurt her. Yeah. That was like getting hit in the face with a baseball bat. And God said, why don't you learn to honor her like she honors you. Yeah. And so now I call her my favorite hottie. When she walks in the room, I see that's my favorite hottie. Yes. The one time that backfired on me I rolled up on my motorcycle, just took my helmet off. You know, it's really loud, so I don't hear a whole lot of everything else. She's standing by the door to the restaurant. Yes. In a mall type area. And all these little teenage girls are walking by and I see my wife, but she's texting the kids, and I said, hello, Heidi. And these four teenagers look like you pervert. Oh, no, no, I said, honey, that's the last time I'm doing that in public, and I. Swear I still do it. Wow. That's sweet. That's excellent. Yeah, that you mentioned earlier. You kind of have five keys that you work with. Yes. Five, you. Know, five steps. Steps. Can you share some of those? Share those with us. Sure. Yeah. And I'll tell you in this real irony, when I wrote the book, I have dozens of publishing people who came to me and said, that is the worst table of contents ever. You have to change it. I'm like, but that's what God told me to write. And they're like, no, no, no, it's dumb, it doesn't work. And I was sitting in the like, today studios and, Charlie Daniels. Yeah. Charlie Daniels was on the stage with James Robinson, and he picked up his latest book, and he's thumbing through the table of contents, and he gets down to about the midway, and he reads the title of one chapter, and he said, now see that chapter? Right? You got my attention. I would jump right there and start reading. Forget the rest of the book. That's what I want to read. And in that moment, the Holy Spirit said, that's why your table of contents is what it is. And I said, go on, he said, because if you skip a step in this process, none of it works. Yeah. You know, if you ever made a cake and it says you got to let the dough rest before you add the next step. If you're making biscuits like my grandmother used to make yeast based right. If you don't let it rise, what you get is a brick, not a biscuit. Right? And so when I was working through the process of writing the book, he said, you've got to identify it as sin, because if you don't identify it as then you try to fix a problem. You don't have the qualities to fix, but then identify, confess. You've got to be willing to look at God and go, okay, God, I see this like you see it. And that's hard, especially when you realize pornography. Today I did an interview with a young lady earlier. She's probably in her early 20s and she said, but, you know, OnlyFans and all these things, people are making a lot of money. I'm like, yeah, these girls are making 70 grand a month. But it's not just that pornography is more accessible. It's also socially acceptable. And so if you can't look at it as sin, then you'll never say to God what it is. So you got to identify, you've got to confess, you've got to repent, and you can't change your mind. Your behavior will never change. And if you try to change your behavior without changing your mind, it's a failure. But then you've got to ask for forgiveness from God, from yourself, and eventually from those that you hurt if it's possible. And then you've got to choose to forget. I don't want to be the dog returning to vomit. I want to look at what I've done and go. I've forgotten that it happened. Yeah, I don't desire that anymore. I don't crave the taste of chocolate or alcohol or whatever. Now here's the scariest part. We all know an alcoholic will drink all of his beer in the middle of the first football game, strap his five year old in the backseat, and drive to the beer store to grab more beer. Not because he wants to put his child at risk, but because he is craving owns him. I'm a porn addict, a chocolate addict, a drama addict does exactly the same thing. They do these harmful behaviors to the people around them because the addiction owns them. They're slaves to this. And when the slave master says jump, you jump. Yep. So those five steps break that process they have in my life, and I've seen it happen in hundreds of other people's lives. Next. So I know that a lot of our listeners are going to be really blessed by this conversation because they are feeling some of the things that you have felt throughout your your journey, and they are going to want to connect with you in your ministry. So again, can you tell them how to get in touch with you, how to get involved in your programs, how to get into those zoom meetings like we're talking about? Where do they go? Five the number five battle strategies.com five battle strategies.com. Perfect. We'll put this in the show notes for all the listeners. Because I know sometimes people are driving when they're listening to podcasts. So absolutely. So in closing today, would you like to leave our listeners with just a message of hope or some sort of encouragement as we bring it to a close? Absolutely awesome. You know, one of the things that that's hardest to say, hardest to hear, hardest to apply is this reality. If you're married, your husband, your wife who's struggling with this addiction, they need your help. They need your support. Like my wife who stood behind me, we learned not to fight face to face, but back to back. The enemy is coming after your relationship. The enemy wants to destroy you. They want to destroy marriage. They want to destroy the message. And every little demon in hell is coming after your message, after your marriage, after your heart. You've got to be willing to stand together and say, I'm going to fight for what matters. I'm going to fight for what matters the most. And that's my marriage. That's my family. That's my calling in the kingdom. And if you're willing to do that and you're willing to do that together, together you will find the synergistic power. But you've got to be willing to forgive one another. You've got to be willing to forgive yourself. You've got to be willing to stand strong and say, father, I've sinned. And let me just tell you something. This doesn't agree with every ministry format, but there is never a time to stop confessing your failure, whether it's with your spouse or it's with your God. If you fall, the the measure of maturity is the distance between sin and repentance. Don't wait six weeks to say honey, I messed up. Do it now. The faster you do it, the more likely it will become a reflex to go. I don't want to mess up anymore so that I have to keep explaining this. If you want victory and victory is yours to be had. If you want to be free, freedom is there for you. Identify it as a sin. Confess to God. It is a sin. Repent and change your mind. Ask God to forgive you and forget the path you've walked on, and you can be free. And spouses stand by your failing spouse. They need your support. They need your love and forgiveness. And don't let them go. Because trust me, when you go searching in the marketplace for a new husband or a new wife because of their addiction, there's there's a whole lot of them that are just as bad off and they don't even know it. And they're going to lie to you about it. Take the one you got, the God's already given you grace for, and help them find the path God has called them to. When you honor them, God will honor you. I promise. All right. Well, Loren, thank you very much. Thank you for having been very helpful. And I'm sure our listeners will appreciate that. So that's it for today. Thank you for watching. be sure to like it and share this. Loren, again, thank you. And that's it. God bless.