Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Covenant Eyes Podcast. It's, Karen Potter joining you from the Covenant Eyes recording studio in Chesaning, Michigan. And of course, I have Rob Stoddard joining me. Hey, Rob. Hey, Karen. Good to be here again today. So looking forward to today. It's, longtime friend of Covenant Eyes, Kristen Jenson. Christian is a good friend of Covenant Eyes. She is the founder of Defend Young Minds and also the, author of one of the number one selling books on Amazon called Good Pictures, Bad Picturess, with which so many of our parents especially know all about. So, Kristen, welcome to Covenant Eyes Podcast. Thank you Rob, and thank you, Karen. It's great to be with you today. Good. Well, Kristen, will you tell us a little bit more about yourself and certainly about, Defend Young Minds? Yes. Well, basically when I started writing Good Pictures, Bad Picturess, I also saw the need to put out information to parents, of young children of how they can porn proof their, their young children so that they can prepare them to reject pornography when they see it. Because you just can't control in in these days, when a child sees pornography or even reads it or hears it, you know, it could be a different media. And so we started to fan young minds. it had it's had different names. But right now we are defending reminds us what we've landed on because we want to put up a defense, help children have a defense to defend their minds from all of the harms of pornography. So that's that's so good. Yeah, we we, have, social media, and we reach through our email list and all of our social media, millions of families, and parents, and just really try to walk along with you and give you tools and resources to to bolster your parenting in this digital age. Those are so important. And I think I love your organization because you're really on the front lines equipping parents. And now, you know, it's funny. I've been with Covenant Eyes. I think I'm heading towards eight years and you've been alongside that, you know, with us on that journey. And now I'm a grandma, so I'm not just fighting for my children anymore. I'm fighting for the next generation. You two. Yes. And it's just amazing to me that I thought we would be a little bit further along in the conversation, because we've been doing this a while, and I think we're making good strides. I think your book, your books are actually instrumental in helping parents equip children. But technology is changing so fast and it's so hard for parents to keep up with it. I think that one of the things I love about your books is that it helps to lay a solid foundation for parents teaching kids you know, what parts of the body you know should be covered, and what's not appropriate and what is appropriate. Because at the end of the day, we are, like you said, able to stop everything on technology or what other people are showing our kids. I mean, it's impossible, but if we but if we lay that solid foundation, they'll be better prepared to do the right thing. When that happens, what drives you to continue the work that you've been doing, with your organization? Well, you know, I tell people I meet with parents and, we hear from parents, and that is the motivation because, we can tell how, desperate many parents are, to help their children, keep away from the stuff, keep it out of their minds, keep it out of their lives. And some of the sad stories that we hear, I think that keeps us going. so, you know, we want to give kids initially, you know, we want to give kids a definition of pornography that's age appropriate. We want to give them a warning of why it's harmful, and then we want to give them a plan. And all those are in Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, and Good Pictures, Bad Pictures Junior,, kids deserve to have a heads up, right? They. None of us do very well when we're caught off guard. and our kids don't do well at all when they're caught off guard. So we need to prepare them so that they know exactly what to do when they see pornography. That's excellent. Kristen. it. Parents, it is a it is an ever changing landscape for parents too. And it's not getting any easier for parents to really deal with this issue. one of the things we constantly here at Covenant, Eyes you know, what age is appropriate to begin to talk about these, these issues. Now, you've got a, Defend Young Minds, and Defend Young Minds Junior. So can you talk to parents a little bit about really where should they start? When should they start having these conversations. Yeah. What we have actually Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, and Good Pictures, Bad Pictures Junior and the, the original book I wrote for 7 to 11 year olds and it talked about vindictiveness. And I know that's what Covenant Eyes is really working on, is helping people to break that addiction with your accountability software. And that's so important. and what I'm working on is to help, you know, people not get addicted in the first place. I think that so that's the, the for seven year olds to 11 year olds and then the junior book is three to 6 or 7, although I've had parents read it to eight year olds. Really just depends on what your comfort level is. But it's just very, simple and age appropriate and comfortable. And I think that's really the hallmark of the Good Pictures. Bad Pictures, books is how comfortable they are. but somehow, we've been able to make it really comfortable for parents to dig in there and to really, equip their kids to reject pornography. I love that, and I love that you have books for kids that are as young as three, because unfortunately, if you go to the grocery store nowadays, kids as young as three are using iPads and their parents cell phones. And it's it's time to have those comments. Yeah. Karen, you know, I when I first wrote, Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, I thought seven was really very young, but needed because I knew of kids that were even a little younger than that, that had gotten into pornography. So I but then I had parents coming to me and asking me, could you write a simpler book for younger children? And that's when I realized that it's not a specific age, to go back and answer Rob's question, it's not a specific age. It's really whenever they have any access to the internet, whenever you're if you're handing them a device to use. and I would caution parents, and I see this a lot, and I know it's it's hard, but I would caution parents, about handing your phone over to your young child. That's sending a lot of messages. that when you think about it, it's giving them the feeling of it's that they. Have a wonderful experience. so another thing that. We asked, I would just. Here coming up. So is the lockdown. What do I do with my kids if they're going to. Play a game on it, or maybe even. At such a young age? So I'm sure you run into that often. What your. Parents who are already. Dealing, maybe have to have, you know, some. Or maybe even struggling. Give to them at the ready that, is either a screen free thing or something else that is pretty locked down and. That's. You know. Just these. Right. So. Right, right. So first I would say you've got to remember that porn is the enemy, not your kid. second, you've got to realize how addicting this is and how their brain is very vulnerable to it. So again, you need to have a lot of grace, but you do need to have some accountability, right? So it's, I feel like there's a lot of education that needs to take place. and a lot of persuasion that needs to take place. And it's hard if they're already into it, to try to persuade them to back out of it. But I think it's really important that you do it in a way so that it's like, look, not trying to guilt trip you, but this is the truth, and the truth will set you free, right? So this is a truth. This is what I feel like you need to know so that you can make the best decisions for your life. and I would talk to them about how pornography not only is addicting and teach them about the addictive nature, if they haven't already. Kind of realized that, I would talk to them a lot about sex. I would talk to them about the ideal of what? What can truly be, a wonderful, how sex can be, you know, ideally, a wonderful thing, for them at the right time, with the right person, right. In the right circumstances. and also, I would talk about how pornography is linked and, and fuels sex trafficking, how it is linked and fuels child on child harmful sexual behavior. and, and so and also how it, promotes racism. You know, if you look at porn, you are seeing a lot of racism in porn. We have a few articles on that by experts in the field, that show how how racist porn is. So I feel like as we persuade our children, they can start to make those decisions to pull out, because you know that there's nothing a parent can do that's going to force that kid. they have to be convinced, they have to be persuaded, and they have to be loved throughout this whole, you know, process. And it may take a while. Right? We would love to have it be done in a week. But, for some, it takes, you know, weeks and months of hard work and to be able to support them in that is a wonderful thing. But again, it has to be their decision. So persuasion, persuasion, persuasion. And that's why I like to get in young and start this disposition so that by the time they see it, they already have a very negative view of pornography and already have decided to keep it out of their lives. But that isn't the reality for a lot of families out there. So again, we can go back and we can persuade them, and we can strive to defend them by educating them. So important. And, you know, we have a lot of ministry leaders that tune in to the Covenant Eyes podcast, and they might be thinking to themselves, well, this is great information. I need to get this in front of parents, because one thing that the church is really good at is equipping men and women in the church. how would they get their hands? Do you have like a curriculum for churches, or is it just as simple as, you know, do you have speakers that come into churches and talk to parents, or how does that work? How can churches engage with you? Yes. So a couple ways. First of all, we have a free guide on our websites how to talk to kids about pornography. that's something you can steer everybody to that link. and they get download that guide. second, we have for those that have already had this issue going on, we have a guide called My Kids Out Porn. Now what? And it is like, I don't know, 80 or 90 pages, but it's a compilation of our absolute best advice, and from many experts on how to, help kids out of this and how to respond. and then finally, I do speaking engagements. I'm, very happy to I've done gone to many churches and and spoken, so that's always, an opportunity there. and so we just we just love to support pastors. I go to pastor's conferences and talk with many of them, and I know that they all have this problem and they all yeah, those. Are wonderful resources. So thank you. So and I also for those. We've used it we've promoted it. How many times I've offered up your resources to pastors and churches and things. And it's kind of like a diversion. As we kind of begin to wrap up today. And it just works with. Lots we want to give to. Help. You share a lot. What kind of final closing words you might have? Amazon, as are all of the books. Just. Thank you. Well, A lot of parents are a little worried about talking to their kids because kids are so curious. Right? unfortunately, that curiosity can lead them down, you know, dangerous roads and we used to be able to protect children. but we no longer really can, we have to convince them and help them to have an internal filter. So I would just say that although some parents might be afraid, to begin this dialog at an early age, I feel like the risk for kids is much greater on the side of not saying anything. you know, when our kids get to the age of walking, we teach them, don't run out in the street. Old mom or dad's hand, you know, and, you know, stop at the corner, whatever. And so we teach them how to be safe around cars and roads, but we don't. We let them on to the internet superhighway and we don't really prepare them. And that's not fair. So our kids need to be prepared, early and with the right information and so that they can, navigate this world. I think, you know, I don't want to burden kids. I don't want to put responsibility on them. I wish adults could take all the responsibility and keep kids safe and protected. And I hope for a day when that's going to happen. But right now, it's just not the case. And I know there are people that are fighting for that. But right now, we have to quit. Equip kids at an early age with just simple things a simple definition, a simple warning, and simple plan so they know exactly what to do when they see pornography. So if you could start that with your kids, they're going to be so much further ahead. I'll just leave you with a story. I've lots of stories of this working. but there was a, like a I think he was a seven year old boy. 7 or 8 year old boy. He was walking home with his friend. his mom had read him Good Pictures, Bad Picturess and, his friend stopped in the mailbox and pulled out a pornographic magazine. They're still around and, started flipping through it like, no problem, you know? And this little boy recognized it, said that pornography. And his friend was like, what, this? Yeah, that. You shouldn't look at that because that, you know, that can become an addiction, you know? And he was just kind of staying back what he had learned. But the but the really important part is you, he went home and talked to his mom about it, and it was an open conversation. And that little boy had also set boundaries, right? He had told this little boy, you know, you should look at it. He wasn't going to look at it. He'd gone home. He told his mom, and there was that open conversation so that whenever he saw it again, his mom was there to talk and debrief him and help him go through the steps so that he could kind of minimize that. The, you know, that memory, because it's a shocking memory and it will stick with them unless they know how to minimize that. And that is also covered in Good Pictures, Bad Picturess. So I would just say, don't be afraid. Start young. You can't control when your kid will see pornography. I wish you could, but through all my the stories that I've heard, it can happen very quickly and in places you wouldn't expect. So get these kids prepared. Don't be scared. Get them prepared. And it's amazing, how that open conversation with you can help them, overcome this temptation to to look at pornography. That is some very good advice for parents and listeners out there. We're going to put links to all of these books that you can get your hands on. You do not want to miss out. These are these are treasured. And you know as a grandma now and thinking about my own little baby grandchild as she continues to navigate this world, we I'm going to make sure, that she's equipped. her parents will do that, but I will be presenting them with these books because they need to have them in their arsenal. Kristen, thank you so much for doing this, for being an advocate for children and helping equip parents. It is such a blessing. Thank you, Karen and Rob, thank you so much for having me. Well, to our listeners, thanks again for joining us on today's podcast. I hope you liked the show. If you do give us a like and also feel free to share this with whoever. Until next time, thank you very much. Take care.