From Engineer to Pastor: The Intersection of Ministry and Technology with Allen Parr

Karen Potter: 0:00

Hey everybody. It's Karen with the Covenant Eyes podcast. I'm joined today by Brandon. Yes, and we are live in the studio in our corporate headquarters having Conversations with Pastor Allen Carr. This is part two of our segment with Pastor Allen Carr and we dive into what it's like to be on YouTube and to run a ministry online. It's a really cool conversation.

Brandon: 0:21

Yeah, we kind of went behind the curtain to see a little bit about how God has led him in his life through engineering to seminary, to being a youtuber and what that means and how to find the balance actually between being click-bitty and leading people to the truth, so it's just a fascinating, wonderful discussion.

Karen Potter: 0:41

Absolutely. You're not gonna want to miss this episode. Stay tuned, hi. Covenant Eyes. Welcome to the Covenant Eyes podcast. We are in studio in a wasp in Michigan and we're very excited to have our dear friend, pastor Allen Carr joining us for an Interview and, of course, my partner in crime, brandon Clarks, here. Hey, brandon, how's it going?

Brandon: 1:05

It's great. I'm just so excited to be here in studio with Pastor Allen. We've been having some great conversations and today we're actually going to get a little bit of a different side to the conversation, because one of the things that we haven't really talked about with Pastor Allen before on the podcast is just a little bit about him and his background and how he got to be on YouTube with 1.1 million subscribers and and reaching so many people with the message of the gospel. So I'm excited to dive into that today.

Karen Potter: 1:35

Absolutely. This is gonna be a good conversation because we often don't get behind the curtain and get to know. You know the people that were actually interviewing and that you know that we talked to quite frequently. So, Pastor Allen, tell us a little bit about you know, your history and just kind of how you got where you are today, if you wouldn't mind.

Pastor Allen Parr: 1:53

Yeah, sure.

Pastor Allen Parr: 1:54

So first of all, thanks for having me. Yes, I love what you all are doing and excited to be here, so, yeah. So I I went to college for engineering and actually went to graduate school, got a master of Electrical engineering in Cleveland, ohio, and so I thought that that was gonna be my career, and so I graduated from college in 1998 and moved here to Michigan Not that far away from where we are now in Detroit to work for Ford Motor Company, and so when I was there, never really felt that engineering was my love and my passion. It was just I was good at math and science and it was a good career for, you know, making money and Supposed to set me up for financial success long term. Like most people do when they go to college, I just want a steady job, and so I got a chance to preach the word and Do some Bible studies teach on Tuesday nights and Bible studies and I've realized this is what I was called to do, like it was almost immediately I felt like, wow, this, I could be doing this.

Pastor Allen Parr: 3:03

And so I started thinking how can I make plans to adjust my life, or make some adjustments to, to Really pursue my career or my passion as a minister. So I left Detroit, michigan, in 2000 and came down to Dallas, went to Dallas theological seminary in 2000 to 2004 and, without going into like a million different details, so from 2004 when I graduated, until 2014, I I worked at different churches in different capacities. I was a worship leader. For most of that time I was working at small churches, serving as a Christian education pastor, I was doing youth ministry just kind of odds and but I was also a high school math teacher. Oh, and so I was.

Pastor Allen Parr: 3:50

Yeah, that was by vocation, because I could never get a full-time Teaching position at a church or being a pastor, and so for about 10 years or so I was just trying to figure out God, what is it that you would have me to do in ministry? I know I have this gift to teach. I know I have a passion to want to reach people, but I just didn't quite know exactly what that looked like. And all that time I was single as well, and so I? That's a whole another podcast.

Pastor Allen Parr: 4:15

We can probably do a story on why I was single till I was 40 and all of that, but Everything really just came together in 2014 2015. I met my wife in 2014, on Valentine's Day 2014, we met in church and we ended up getting married. And then, I would say, a couple months before we got married, I started the YouTube channel, the beat, which stands for biblical encouragement and truth, and really the motivation for why I started that was because I was at a point where I was frustrated With not really getting opportunities to speak, not getting invited to podcast at covenant eyes, you know.

Karen Potter: 4:54

I was.

Pastor Allen Parr: 4:54

Nobody knew who I was. Nobody was interested in inviting me to the church, unless they needed worship music. Less they needed something. You know me to lead worship and I wasn't really Respected as a Bible teacher. So I didn't really get a chance to do that and I was always at the mercy of waiting on pastors to To ask me to teach a Bible study and I just said you know what? I'm not gonna wait around anymore. I know I'm gifted for this. I know I have the theological background. I've been to school. I'm going to start teaching the Bible online and at the time there wasn't a lot of us doing it. Now there's a whole bunch of Christian YouTubers, which is great.

Pastor Allen Parr: 5:34

But at the time, there just really wasn't a lot of people doing that. But I started to see the reach that you could have online. I looked at how non-Christians were using YouTube at the time and they were reaching people with their message with hundreds of millions of thousands of views all over the world, and I said, well, how much better would it be, as Christians, if we could leverage this YouTube and Google algorithm to reach people with the truth? Right, and so I started a YouTube channel, started putting out videos once a week, and over the past eight years, god has grown it to where it is today.

Karen Potter: 6:10

That's amazing.

Brandon: 6:11

I always like looking back right. So you hit a certain point in life and you look back where you were and I really believe everything happens for a reason, like everything we go through. God is allowing us to go through that for a specific reason. How do you think the engineering background played into your journey? I'm just curious about that. I'm still trying to figure that out.

Pastor Allen Parr: 6:30

But I will say this I think that having the background with math and science and engineering really set me up for my career as a high school math teacher as a member. When I came out of seminary in 2004, I was tunnel focused on I want to be in ministry full time. I don't want to be an engineer, I don't want to do any of those things, I just want to serve God. That's why I went to seminaries, why I gave up my career but didn't work out like that. I wasn't able to get a full time ministry position for the better part of well, even to this day I've never had a full time ministry position, except the one I have now, which is through my own ministry. Yeah, for the 10 years after I graduated from seminary I didn't have, so I had to find something to do to provide for myself. So that background in math and science really propelled me into teaching high school math, which I at the time thought I was only going to do for a year or two, or just not even that, just as long as I had to do it until I could find a full time church job.

Pastor Allen Parr: 7:35

But, as we were talking about yesterday, I really see it as the providence of God because, had I gotten hired at a church a mega church, let's say I was making really good money as a staff pastor, I was getting chances to preach 10 to 12 times a year, I had my weekly Bible studies and had my benefits. I don't think there would have been this hunger and this burden to want to do more. I would have been very content there and I definitely believe it was the providence of God that all the doors were closed for me to work full time at a local church for 10 years because I tried I mean, I tried to apply for all sorts of open positions at churches and I never could get hired for any staff position. Now, looking back, I would like. It's because God had a unique ministry for me online that I wouldn't trade for anything.

Karen Potter: 8:32

That is awesome. You know it's funny because you spent all that time as a high school math teacher and what a great opportunity there just to be a Christian in the schools and be able to share. I mean, there was probably a lot of ministry happening there without even trying, right.

Pastor Allen Parr: 8:48

Yeah, I was. I mean, I did that for 11 years and that was just a great, great experience. I got a chance to talk with so many people, so many young people actually one teacher of the year in 2015.

Brandon: 9:02

Oh wow, congratulations.

Pastor Allen Parr: 9:04

I was excited for the district and I just, I mean, I loved my time there, but I always knew that this isn't what I wanted to do full time, but the opportunities that I had to make a difference in the lives of young people. It's just even now. I have students that had me, you know, whenever they were in high school, and they'll see me out and or they'll see me on Facebook and they'll reach out and they'll say how much they appreciated my class as well as the advice I've given them and things of that nature. From that, you know, I'm very appreciative of that part of the journey.

Karen Potter: 9:39

That's great. So a lot of our pastors and ministry leaders that listen to the podcast probably have a deep desire to leverage technology and their ministries to help reach people that maybe aren't walking through the doors you know and are in the community. Do you have any advice on how we can harness technology for good and use it in a way, like you have, to reach and teach the Bible?

Pastor Allen Parr: 10:01

Yeah, well, I think that it starts with seeing the opportunity, because I think many of us have been conditioned to see ministry as happening within the four walls of a church, and obviously the pandemic has forced us as a culture to look beyond that alternate ways for how we can communicate with people. And so the first thing I would say to any ministry leader is to just broaden your perspective on what you see ministry as, because I would say, five years ago probably, most ministry leaders didn't see YouTube as a viable ministry outlet or viable ministry expression of your ministry. Right, I you know you can. I'll tell you a quick story. A few years ago I had a young lady who reached out to our ministry and somehow she and I got on a zoom call and I was helping her, I think, log into her access for one of the courses that she had gotten from us or whatnot, and she said well, do you know how I found your ministry? I said, well, no, she says well, I have two twin daughters or 28 years old, but one of them has passed away and she committed suicide and she's now in heaven.

Pastor Allen Parr: 11:22

People from my church and other people told me that she committed the unforgivable sin that she was gonna be in hell and that she didn't have time to repent and so, therefore, I'll never see my daughter again, and I was broken up about that. So she went to YouTube and she typed in is suicide the unforgivable sin? And my video popped up in the search results and she read, she watched the video and she realized that suicide is murder and just like God forgives murderers, he will forgive my daughter and that she is forgiven as long as she was a Christian and she was. And I will see my daughter again, and she was so comforted by that and she wanted to tell me that. And so I bring up that story, because sometimes we think, oh, I just press, publish on a video and it goes out in the stratosphere, cyberspace, somewhere, and we don't know impact it has, but that's just it.

Pastor Allen Parr: 12:15

Every time there's a view, there's an impact. Yeah, every view is a soul that you can reach, and so that would be the first thing I'd say is see it as an opportunity. The second thing I would say is don't get intimidated by all the stuff that you have to do, the tech and different things, because that's another thing is a lot of people. I don't know how to do this? I don't have it.

Pastor Allen Parr: 12:35

I didn't know how to do any of those things when I started in 2014, I didn't. I was a high school math teacher. You know, I didn't know how to work a camera, didn't know how to do any of those things, and I was a team of one. Well, most pastors probably don't have to start with a team of one. They probably have at least one or two people from their church where they can say hey, can you just set up the cameras and the microphone and let me sit down in and teach and do what I do answer questions and things of that nature. So dedicate some resources from your ministry to be able to have an online presence that's great, and that's also a wavy call too.

Karen Potter: 13:15

So I mean, if we're able to reach so many people using technology in that way, we better make sure that we're preaching and teaching according to God's word right, because there could be a downside to that too, because now everybody seems to be online, right, and everybody wants to be an influencer and everybody's got a YouTube channel, and so that false doctrine is also getting out there into people's hands. So how do we combat that, you know? I mean, is there anything that we can do? You know you're online, you've got a YouTube channel. I mean, do you just continually put out good biblical teachings and hope that it just kind of supersedes all the bad stuff out there?

Pastor Allen Parr: 13:52

yeah, well, I don't think there's a way that we can control because, like you said, you know, 20 years ago, in order for you to have a platform or an influence, you had to have a pulpit, you had to have a stage and audience, and a lot of times there was a vetting process of you know how you got there and we would call it being ordained or licensed as a minister, and oftentimes you'd have to go to some sort of theological school not necessarily have to, but it's encouraged and so it wasn't as easy to reach people with the word of God. But nowadays, like you said, anyone in the world can start a YouTube channel and that's where it can be so dangerous, which is the reason why I would love to see more Bible-based, solid, theologically sound pastors using their gift and their platform, because we need more biblically based teachers teaching the word versus people who are just taking scriptures out of context and leading people astray pontificating in their race meant.

Brandon: 14:51

I love imagery when it comes to names, so like the beat right, biblical encouragement and truth. But you have a heart on there, right, and you have a heart beat in the logo, yeah, and when I think about the beat and what that means, it really is giving a heartbeat back to the church, right? You can tell by the hundreds of thousands of views, even millions of views, and on some of the videos, that there is a deep longing and a thirst for truth, and I actually think that we're hitting this point in our culture of where there's a lot of talking heads but people are searching so much for authenticity that when they find it, it sticks and it draws attention. Have you seen that in this ministry?

Pastor Allen Parr: 15:37

yeah, definitely, definitely, you know. I think that that is definitely part of it is yes, you can communicate the truth, you can be biblically based, but at the end of the day, people want and need to see someone who is genuine, someone who's authentic, someone that they can trust is a viable source for truth. So authenticity is really, really important, but you can have authenticity and also have false doctrine as well, because a lot of people on YouTube that are very, very kind, very authentic, very genuine, very personal in their presentation of their beliefs, but you know, they're maybe not trained theologically enough to to understand how to discern the Word of God and teach it in a way that's biblically accurate.

Brandon: 16:26

I'm curious to know, too, about the balance, because there's a lot of different topics that you talk about and on YouTube you really have to have like a tile that grabs attention or or something that is going to rank really well with SEO. Yes, how do you find the balance between choosing a very good topic that maybe not a lot of people are talking about in the church and not being, you know, click baity right still still drawing them in to get them the truth, and recognizing that there's a certain level you have to go, but you don't want to draw them in and and leave them feeling like you know that they've been taken or you know like they're wasting their time.

Pastor Allen Parr: 17:04

Basically, right, well, and that's true and that's an issue of integrity. You know, whenever we, as Christian youtubers, put out a video, I think there is a big difference between creativity, clickbait, right. Creativity would be, for instance, the video I just put out today, which was it said something about false prophets like these will lead you astray, right. And I talk about the story in 1 Kings, chapter 22, where King Ahab was led astray by his prophets and he didn't listen to the true prophet, Makai, right? So I'm creative in the title and I'm saying, hey, false prophets like these will lead you astray, right.

Pastor Allen Parr: 17:46

To me that's a creative title because it's it's. It's creating intrigue, like, okay, well, who are the false prophets Alan may be talking about? And then they click and realize I'm not talking about any person, I'm not naming any names, I'm talking about types of false prophets who just tell you what you want to hear. That would be creativity. I'm good with that. Clickbait would be if I put on the thumbnail pictures of a whole bunch of people right that I don't even reference in the video at all.

Pastor Allen Parr: 18:16

Right, yeah, but I'm using their faces to get people to click on it, because I know that people are drawn to drama and they like the smoke and they like all of the you know all of that and they, if they see so and so's picture oh, alan's talking about him let me click and then the whole video. I don't even talk about that person. To me, that's not integrity, that's misrepresenting what the video is about. And so there's that fine line and we as Christian YouTubers have Christian or just YouTubers in general. We have to be very careful with that, because we have to make sure that we're not so desperate for clicks and views that we present ourselves as people who are not honest and don't have integrity.

Karen Potter: 18:58

Right. How do you steer clear of, you know, all those cultural topics that everybody wants to talk about? But really, I mean, at the end of the day, is that really what we should be talking about, Karen?

Pastor Allen Parr: 19:09

that's hard. That is very, very difficult because, as a YouTuber, we want to have views.

Pastor Allen Parr: 19:18

We want to have engagement. Our views directly affect our ad revenue, how we provide for our families, we it. If I'm being honest with you, it it strokes our ego. We put out a video and it gets 400,000 views in one day. I mean, who would not feel good about that? Right? That's a lot of people and it makes you feel like you're someone. So the temptation is to do what seems to be working I use that in quotes now which is, you know, a lot of pop culture stuff, putting celebrities pictures on your thumbnails, because unfortunately, we're living in a culture and this is the sad reality that more Christians are interested in that stuff than if I put an overview of the book of Ecclesiastes. Most Christians would look at that and be like I don't want that.

Pastor Allen Parr: 20:12

But if I put you know someone's picture on my thumbnail who is a pop artist or someone in the culture, let's just say Justin Bieber or something like that. Oh man, I want to click on that, you know, and it's so sad, it's it's. It's a commentary on where we are as a culture today.

Pastor Allen Parr: 20:33

We are Christians Is that we're more drawn to that stuff, and so there's a temptation for us as YouTubers Christian YouTubers, myself included to say, hey, if I want to keep up with these other guys and I want to get the views and all those things, then I need to. I need to do the same thing. But you know, I have decided whether we get the views or whether we don't, I'll be creative. But what do people need to grow spiritually? I always come back to that what? What are the? What are the biblical principles that I need to teach people so that they'll be a better husband, a better Christian, a better father? Is it teaching them about this new person's new album and how? Maybe there's some value here, but at the end of the day, if I have your attention for 15 minutes, I'd rather teach you something that's going to help you grow spiritually.

Pastor Allen Parr: 21:30

And whether that means we get 40,000 views or 400,000 views. I'm sticking with what God has called me to do.

Karen Potter: 21:37

That's amazing, thank you for doing that too, because that's got to be a challenge. I mean, that's got to be a tough balance. One question I have for you, too, on the YouTube channel work that you do is your goal really, though, to help drive people to that local church, where they should get connected? At the end of the day? I mean, obviously you're providing them with you know, food and biblical truth, but is that kind of your mission is to help connect them to good Bible believing churches locally so they can have community?

Pastor Allen Parr: 22:06

I'm so glad you asked that, because and I'm really really glad you asked that because sometimes it can be presented as the Christian YouTube is a either, or when it comes to the local church.

Pastor Allen Parr: 22:18

We like to see it as a both end. We are my wife and I, we are active members of our church. We have a small group. We believe in the local church, we're members, we believe in giving to the church, and so we want everyone to find a solid, bible based church because they're going to be able to do things for you that we won't be able to do as a ministry. We're not going to be able to walk along with you and give you counseling and do small groups and different things like that, so we can provide you with the truth and how to discern truth from Aaron, all those things, but we're not going to be a church family.

Pastor Allen Parr: 22:54

You need that, and so one of the things that we really push people to do is hey, you know, yeah, you can follow us and you can get the biblical content from us, but you really need, you need a church family. You need a church home that you can be plugged into, and so you know. That's one of the things. But also, what people may not realize is, for us, our end game and our goal is not YouTube.

Pastor Allen Parr: 23:20

I mean you know, like, like people, a lot of people don't know that we have a ministry called let's Equip. That is a nonprofit ministry. That is the umbrella under which the beat the YouTube channel falls, because our goal we're not. We realize that YouTube is up and down and it's dependent upon the algorithm. They might promote your videos, they might not. They might censor the video, they might take it down. So our ultimate goal is to is to really move people into our biblical literacy program, which we have online courses. We have a community online that people can be a part of, because we're all about, basically our whole mission is to take people from being a disciple to a disciple maker. That's what we want to create.

Brandon: 24:09

I love that enrichment aspect of it Because really, when you think about it, going to church on a Sunday, right, you get a couple hours and then you're off into the world the other six days a week, unless you're involved in like a small group or something like that. So being able to have that enrichment throughout the week is really important. And one of the things I was thinking about too with the YouTube channel is there's intentional divisiveness, which you were talking about, like reggae on this person or that person, but Jesus also had divisiveness when he came and taught as well. What I think is different about the divisiveness that that is presented when, when you talk, you produce a video, is that it's rooted in truth and so, ultimately, we're leading people back to that truth and we're almost creating this tension interiorly in their spirit of of going deeper and finding out. Well, this, this, this triggered me somehow. Why did that trigger me? And maybe, diving deeper into that, am I, is that any?

Pastor Allen Parr: 25:13

Yeah, I mean it's. It's true, something within us is resistant to change, is resistant to anything that's going to go against my sinful desires, my flesh, because we want to do what's going to make us feel good. So, anytime you present something to someone that is challenging them to make a change in their life that they're not really ready to make, or if you're challenging, maybe, a belief system that they've held near and dear, because maybe their beloved pastor that they grew up with taught this and they love that person and they don't want to let go of that, there's that tension of do I change my beliefs? Do I change my behaviors? Right, and I think that that's natural.

Pastor Allen Parr: 26:01

I think we all wrestle with that at some point, which is the reason why we're trying to teach people. Okay, yeah, I know this is what you've been taught, but based on the principles for how to interpret the Bible that I've laid out for you here, do you think that what you were taught is consistent with what the Bible teaches? And we want to get people to start rethinking those things, even if it creates a little bit of tension and division in their mind or even in their relationships, but, more importantly, their behaviors. We want to challenge their behaviors as well.

Karen Potter: 26:33

That's great. Well, this has been a really fun conversation, kind of letting our viewers get to know you a little bit and also learn a little bit more about your YouTube work and how that can be leveraged to really get the word out and also preach and teach to people all over the globe. Right, you're reaching people in every country, I can imagine. So in closing, are there any like last-minute closing thoughts for our ministry leaders or pastors as they maybe look at ways to leverage maybe not YouTube, but Facebook lives or other tools that are out there? What should they keep in mind as they start working on those things? In COVID, everybody jumped in and I don't think anybody knew what they were doing but now maybe they're coming up with strategies, so what would you advise them or if you could give them a pointer.

Pastor Allen Parr: 27:17

Yeah, I would just say be intentional about it, because if you just say, well, I'm going to get on YouTube and I'll do my best, we know that's not a plan, that's a desire, that's a thought, but that's not an intentional strategic plan.

Pastor Allen Parr: 27:35

I would encourage people who see the value in once again expanding their ministry not replacing it, but just expanding and allowing other people to benefit from their wonderful Bible teaching to be intentional about it, to have some conversation with their team, set aside some time, some resources and really make this a priority and then just go for it. Got to start somewhere and also realize that where they are now is not going to be where they are five years from now. For us, the first year on YouTube, we had 1,500 subscribers after one year and that was after one video week. I never missed a week. 52 videos in one year. We had 1,564 subscribers after the first year and I could have been like this is a waste of time. You know I'm never going to get to where other people are, but you know the Lord has blessed it and consistency and faithfulness Great.

Karen Potter: 28:38

so be strategic, have a plan and then just get out there and do it. Trust in God too, if the Lord is truly calling you to that.

Brandon: 28:46

he's going to provide the way to make it flourish Absolutely.

Karen Potter: 28:50

Yeah Well, Brandon, it has been another amazing conversation with Pastor Alan Parr. It's just been such a joy to get to know him a little bit more at a personal level.

Brandon: 28:59

It really has. And before we end the podcast, I want to make sure we mention his book too. Oh, yes. It's on sale. We did another podcast episode but misled seven lies that distort the gospel. Really want to encourage our listeners to get that book because there's a lot more involved in unpacking the truth and dispelling lies, which it really is, what we've talked about as a mission of Pastor Alan's.

Karen Potter: 29:22

Absolutely Well. Covenant Eyes family. Thanks for tuning in for this episode. Be sure to like the podcast, share the podcast and send us your thoughts and feedback. We love to hear from you and what we can do in future episodes. So take care. God bless, we'll see you next time.