Karen Potter: hi i'm Karen potter your host of the Covenant eyes podcast, thank you for joining us today we started this podcast because we know so many people marriages and families are being impacted by pornography and we want to help connect people the tools and resources to find lasting freedom.

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Karen Potter: that's you read it.

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Karen Potter: Oh sorry.

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Sorry.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: Can we start over.

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Karen Potter: yeah, of course, is.

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Karen Potter: transitioned over to you and.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: I thought you were gonna.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: Either you're gonna introduce me.

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Karen Potter: So no I was gonna let you introduce yourself, because the script sorry.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: Alright sounds good.

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Karen Potter: nicely this disorganized David.

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Davin: And I don't need a script that right like.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: No right.

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Karen Potter: yeah you're good alright lori hi i'm Karen potter your host of the Covenant eyes podcast, thank you for joining us today.

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Karen Potter: We started this podcast because we know so many people marriages and families are being impacted by pornography and we want to help connect people to tools and resources that help them find lasting freedom.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: yeah we sure do Karen i'm brandon Clark i'm a Co host here on the Covenant eyes podcast and if you're just tuning in for the first time, I just want to welcome you, because.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: This is a great opportunity to learn about resources and tools to.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: Not only help you live a better life, but to help protect your family protect your marriage being more intentional and the digital world so.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: we're very excited to have you on with us today, we have a fantastic guest, who will introduce in just a minute, but first Karen we really want to hear from our listeners, as we continue to grow this podcast.

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Karen Potter: We sure, do we want to hear from each and every one of you so there's a couple ways that you can do that, you can send us an email at podcast at covenant eyes calm, or you can leave comments and feedback in.

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Karen Potter: YouTube channels or wherever you get your podcast because we want to get your feedback we also want to know if you have show topic ideas.

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Karen Potter: For guests you'd like to see us bring on the show so don't forget that send us an email make sure you subscribe to the podcast and also give us a rating on all the podcasts doors and let us know how we're doing.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: yeah and we're very excited for today's topic and guest, because it really speaks to the heart of what we do here at covenant eyes.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: So the topic today is accountability, the golden ticket to life and our special guest is David grand Roth our very own president and chief operating officer here at covenant eyes.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: David has been working for covenant eyes for 14 years and has been in his current position for nearly eight of those.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: He designs corporate strategy and structure business models vision and culture, which has consistently led covenant eyes to be on the Inc 5000 list 11 times since 2010 that's a remarkably rare feat.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: David has a passion for covenant eyes as you'll see as we continue our conversations throughout the day today.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: To be a world class because i've seen the incredibly destructive effects that pornography has on lives and relationships going across many generations so we're very excited to have David with us today Karen.

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Karen Potter: Welcome, Stephen we're so glad to have you joining us and today's topic really speaks to the heart of what we do here at covenant eyes so i'm really excited to dive into this topic.

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Karen Potter: You know i've been with covenant eyes for gosh it's been over five years now it's amazing time goes so fast and i've traveled all over the country and talk to pastors and leaders and.

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Karen Potter: You know it's amazing to me, but everyone agrees that accountability is biblical and it is a right path to take when addressing issues like pornography.

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Karen Potter: But one of the most common things that I hear is that it's so hard and it's difficult and we don't always do it well.

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Karen Potter: um you know for our audience the oven Would you mind kind of walking us through kind of a good basic understanding of what accountability is and then kind of what its context is.

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Davin: yeah absolutely brandon and Karen Thank you guys, for having me here, it looks i'm excited to be here and congratulate you on the podcast and actually getting rolling now i've got a few.

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Davin: episodes already recorded some it's a good initiative that we have accountability, I think, is one of these concepts that we hear in media just in mass media all the time.

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Davin: And, most of the time when I hear the word accountability I end up thinking Oh, but that's not accountability, so if you think about you know.

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Davin: Any news program or some government agency or politician or something broke trust right they did something that the public, you know somebody somebody else's offended now how dare they and then right the the next words are they need to be held accountable right.

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Davin: yeah oh.

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Davin: that's accountability right, you know and it caused me to think well word accountability company i'm like is that what is that the accountability that we're talking about like no not even close.

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Davin: right that sounds more like a desire for justice or or even worse vengeance right, this is that that sounds like an eye for an eye sort of a notion of like that's.

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Davin: that's not the idea of accountability that actually works.

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Davin: Right, I know you guys have heard it and you guys can probably off, you know I think all of our listeners can think of oh yes.

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Davin: But right.

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Yes.

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Davin: Right let's like that I really hope that we don't have customers who come to us, people who come to cover an eyes and think I need that kind of accountability.

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Davin: You know i'm so and so it's got a common right like no.

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Davin: that's not right.

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Davin: So I think that's one of the problems that we run into is how do we well what is accountability, then, if it isn't that if it if it isn't some sense of justice or an eye for an eye, well, what does it right, what does it actually require, and so we actually had a group of employees.

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Davin: Tom I think was tomlin Dino Aaron states and john Parkinson.

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Davin: number of years ago did this sort of brain trust activities they try to define Okay, but what do we mean by accountability and I thought it was brilliant.

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Davin: We haven't ever published it, you know I thought, maybe we can but i'm gonna i'm not gonna hold you know heavily from that, but there was a few ideas that I think really work for our thoughts about accountability, and I would say that healthy effective accountability requires.

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Davin: It requires a few things it requires a person so we're talking about progress and people quitting prior right.

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Davin: That kind of way, it has to include the person who wants to quit So this is the basics right the person who wants to quit and, ideally, ideally, that person initiates this.

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Davin: That they own it there's a sense of ownership, I want to put this behind the uncommitted because depending The second is a set of allies.

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Davin: At least one but ideally a set of people who are coming alongside and saying i'm with you what like what are we doing but i'm with you right.

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Davin: They might they might be surprised you're taken back by it, but they're willing to help take care about the person who wants to quit right there and they're willing to serve in that capacity on passion, the third, and this is the part that softness and the third is a clear commitment.

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Davin: Clear spoken commitment at least to no longer seek out porn no longer seek out for him and to talk with each other about it.

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Davin: Right and that that absence of commitment I think there's also the fourth The fourth is a feedback system at the fourth of the feedback system set that provides ongoing transparency.

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Davin: So that those allies, he will come in to help the person wants to quit was allies and monitor and see how that person is doing, according to their commitment, according to their so person who wants to change behavior a set of people were there to help.

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Davin: A commitment to actually make that change, and then a system of feedback so monitoring for anybody to happen and and I think you know back to the reopen sort of like oh when mass media somebody says they need to be held accountable.

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Davin: That sounds really dramatic, but you know i'm an executive in the company, I believe this is true for any company.

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Davin: And I will throw anybody under the bus but i'm willing to bet that in any any corporation employees have run into the situation where somebody feels like well so and so's not pulling his or her weight.

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Davin: And they go to a manager and say hey so and so it's not the job.

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Davin: Right and all of a sudden, we actually have a little little tiny accountability scenario.

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Davin: And it's usually wrong it's usually broken, because the complaining employee well here's what usually happens to you know generalizing here but here's what usually happens that employee has a particular work ethic that they've committed to privately.

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Davin: And it's detailed and they're assuming that other employees share the same work ethic, but they've never said it, and the other employee never agreed and said yeah totally you can hold me accountable for your work ethic like.

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Davin: Right it's that secret it's that secret commitment that that personalized never shared and then, and then you accuse somebody.

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Davin: And you call that hold somebody accountable, but it isn't me accountable when there's that shared commitment that spoken shared commitment or written community.

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Davin: So I just want to put that out there, what is healthy accountability look like that it has to have those kinds of ingredients or or I don't think what you're doing is accountability it's something else that's probably negative is probably not actually helping.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: I think that's really great.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: yeah that's really great insight, you know, looking at the aspect of pornography.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: To get to the point you're talking about of wanting to get help.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: It takes a long time and it's often a sad journey I just I stayed in my own journey, you know the point to get to where I actually was committed to.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: Making that step of bringing accountability into my life, and so it can be baffling even for me who have gone through it, to see that.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: Pornography even in its destructive ness can suck us deeper, and we can fall deep into pornography, use and.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: Just, I guess, I want to follow up to the the accountability question, in that it takes a little bit to get to this point, you know why do we see Dave and why is it so hard for people to quit and why do they fall deeper and deeper until a point where they're really like.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: face down on the ground, realizing that they have nowhere else to turn.

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Davin: yeah right, so you know your story i'm sure that you, you have perspective on this.

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Davin: Quite a quite a few years back, I also went through my own journey struggling against pornography, and so I think those people who have been through or going through it.

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Davin: My experience in my observations that that people have been through it there's at the heart of it there's there's a couple of lies.

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Davin: That people tell themselves and i'm going to simplistically boil it down to two I think there's two very, very common lies that a person hasn't and it might start you know there's so many ways, that a person might get exposed to pornography.

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Davin: Not even necessarily seeking it out at first, but get exposed to it.

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Davin: And then end up wanting to go back to it, and sometimes it's you know months or years later, but they go back to.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: That it's.

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Davin: got its hooks in and they want to eventually, for whatever reason, they end up turning back to it when they turn back to it, they rationalize it, we have the power of rationalization to make horrible things he makes up the ball and there's there's two The first one is.

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Davin: That I can i'm in charge, I can quit anytime I want.

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Davin: Right, I can I can quit whenever I want i'm just you know this doesn't have a hold on me, I still have that ability to choose, and the second one is well it's not harming anybody.

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Davin: Right, because if you can say I have, I have a direct quote whenever I want, and you believe that to be true, you can rationalize your way into an addiction.

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Davin: Right and before you realize that you can't quit and the second one, if you can tell yourself, you convince yourself in the moment that it's not actually hurting anybody because and why why want to hurt anybody what because i'm keeping it secret.

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Davin: If they don't know about it, then it won't hurt anybody and i'm still good person.

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Davin: Right and not harming others so for the three of us who have been in this industry those two those two statements are patently wrong like it's.

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Davin: Like we have how much evidence to the contrary, on both those points it's ridiculous, but in that moment.

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Davin: As a person who's rationalizing their behavior a small step out of the norm small divergence from what what they would typically have as a virtuous life.

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Davin: or life, where they really have a reason to have integrity it's easy to take those steps.

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Davin: Right and then you combine that shame of that secrecy and you can tell that story, you can spin that shame or secrecy, I say i'm doing i'm not telling anybody because I want to protect them.

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Davin: And now somehow your normal right in there and i'm kind of laughing right you that sort of them don't unintentionally talking about it but it's that.

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Davin: it's that deep betrayal you know that actually happens, and you can walk you can walk years you don't want years telling yourself with two stories and by the time the pain is so great like you said, your face down.

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Davin: And you realize why I tried to quit 100 times I haven't.

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Davin: And you cannot trust yourself.

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Davin: And you realize at the very least, have profoundly hurt yourself, it is hurting somebody and probably you've heard other people, whether you realize it or just even even without saying, even if people aren't aware you've probably.

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Davin: damaged relationships, you probably pushed people away because we need to keep a secret.

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Davin: and other people are damaged because you're not with them right it's just so we can get pre right we just turn this.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: off to someplace kind of darcy and.

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Davin: But that's our business right.

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Karen Potter: It is it is you know and even you brought up.

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Karen Potter: You know shame it just it kind of perpetuates the cycle right, we feel the shame and the guilt about our secrets then we're struggling with, and then it just pushes us deeper and deeper into that.

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Karen Potter: And I think one of the hardest parts about accountability, at least in my own experiences, has always been that vulnerability because.

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Karen Potter: When you're ready to get accountability and do it well, and do it right.

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Karen Potter: You have to be vulnerable and you're going to be opening yourself up and having to trust another human being with things about yourself that are.

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Karen Potter: Not pretty and not things that you would want to take and share with the world and so.

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Karen Potter: How do you think that that vulnerability piece really plays into accountability because it's not something that we talked about frequently when we hear the word accountability, but I think it's an important piece to it, what are your thoughts.

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Davin: yeah that's a that's a hard one I the vulnerability and brandon's you talked a little bit about this, what what does it take to get to the point where you're.

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Davin: you're willing to be vulnerable that you're not you have to let go protecting yourself right, and I think there's a couple things that are happening.

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Davin: In that one is.

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Davin: there's a there's a persecution that happens inside yourself where you're accusing yourself, you the story that you're telling yourself that negative voice, you have reasons to be negative against yourself right, you know.

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Davin: That you're not good enough right that there's there's a lot of pain there's a lot there's a lot of self inflicted pain that goes on regardless of anybody else who might find out was upset about it, you realize that your sense of honor as a person has been damaged.

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Davin: and

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Davin: You know there's a.

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Davin: What is the opening of beatitudes.

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Davin: blessed are the poor in spirit.

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Right.

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Davin: Right porn spirit like when I think of somebody who's been struggling with an addiction.

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Davin: And they're broken and they're at that point where they're broken.

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Davin: that's that's a that's a that's a potential turning point in their life in their spiritual life, as well as the whole the whole life.

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Davin: I because they're poor in spirit, because it bless it other points period because right there pride has been set aside it can't stand in the brokenness of their spirit.

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Davin: And that happens right in a beautiful way to set them up for a path for healing where they're willing to come vulnerable towards.

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Davin: Somebody that cares about that's where that's where a trust and a sense of being loved by somebody else instead of having an ally, having a friend who come alongside you, and want the best for you want the good for you become so powerful.

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Davin: Right and that's you know.

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Davin: I really think that's that's part of that, where does it come from, how do you get to that place if you're going to best scenarios of course guess that stage for their on their knees.

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Davin: And they're dependent, but their understanding that they can't keep going on their own that they need help there so points for it, they need somebody else, and you know I would argue, and probably our audience would agree that you know God is.

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Davin: Right God God has that person that cares that person, regardless right, I think, is a key detail, you know and something I wish I had the verse that comes to mind here but there's another element of this.

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Davin: That.

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Davin: That says.

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Davin: That.

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Davin: Well i'll share this this story with you guys that, as I was going through it quite a few years back, there was this place, I was in where you talked about isolating of separating oneself I knew.

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Davin: I knew that I yearned for church, and so I would literally drive I would drive to a church.

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Davin: To church and you're saying.

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Davin: and

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Davin: on a Sunday morning and I and the willpower it took to get in the car so now get ready for church and drive to church was a big deal right and I get to the parking lot and more than once.

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Davin: I got out of the car and I couldn't walk through the doors.

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Davin: Could lock the doors that church.

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Davin: And nobody knows anything right nobody knows the struggle.

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Davin: Right how porn spirit.

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Davin: Was.

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Davin: Right and and inherent in that is is a mistake that people were struggling me, and that is to say that I am no longer acceptable to God.

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Davin: Because of the continuance of sin.

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Davin: tried to repent I tried it, but I haven't.

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Davin: gotten back right so i'm no longer good enough.

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Davin: For god's acceptance.

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Davin: What ego.

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Davin: Because before I was in that state when I was maybe living a life of higher virtue.

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Davin: Did that mean I had earned my place to be acceptable to God.

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Davin: No.

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Davin: No and that's that's this other bit of the lie that we have to justify ourselves to be good enough to be acceptable to God and the answer is you can't possibly.

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Davin: You can't possibly be good enough.

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Davin: No matter how good you are that we're entirely dependent upon the love of God.

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Davin: And he accepts us, regardless of how bad or frankly how good we think we are we're wrong.

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Davin: God sees us for who we are right and and that right so for anybody out there who might be listening who might be able to identify with that.

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Davin: There was a deeper heart transformation that's ready to happen and then just to let go the sense of self that the story, the way that you tell about your own life that there's something that you can do to be good enough you actually have to fully depend upon god's favor.

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Davin: And that right blessed are the poor in spirit is the beginning of the journey of healing and transformation so right, how do we.

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Davin: How do we help them get there right.

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Davin: To take place we do we do our lesson.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: I love, how you put that because I think you know we talked about.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: In that destructiveness of pornography there's really a beauty when we hit that moment of we realize we can't do it ourselves and that's really, I think, where we come to.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: encounter God in a real powerful way and so as we you know we talk about accountability in terms of.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: pornography and breaking free but really they have and that's just one step, you know we have accountability in so many different areas of our lives.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: And one of the reasons we talk we titled the topic, the way it is accountability, the golden ticket to life is because this isn't just about pornography, there should be a greater accountability pattern in our lives, I wonder if you can speak to that just a little bit.

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Davin: yeah I think one of the me i've been thinking about this topic in general, for a long time, almost since I started here and coming in eyes and I think one of the it's almost a hidden secret of our service is that.

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Davin: When people use come tonight as well over time, what happens is they forge deep friendships.

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Davin: and

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Davin: And Contrast that with people who are really struggling have a tendency to have distanced themselves and they might say, well, I don't have any deep friendships.

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Davin: yeah That may be true right That may be true, but part of the idea of colonizes to be Trent is is to be vulnerable with people to be willing to accept help and be willing to help others right and that's a deeper friendship that can lead to a deeper relationship with people around you.

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Davin: And there's something and I guess part of it, too, is, if you think about it as a as a two way street you're in partnership with others.

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Davin: you're going through a journey with others it's not being done to me a season or somebody carrying right there might be that season, but it has to be together and there's there's a.

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Davin: You can develop a deeper virtue right through relationship with others and we succeed, better when we're in strong relationship, and we can help others what a blessing.

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Davin: right as part of it, I don't I don't just mean the outline but, but also the person is trying to quit there's unforeseen ways that that friendship will become strong you know element, and so I think I think that it sounds simple.

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Davin: And it's not at the end of it all it's actually not about quitting porn right.

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Davin: it's about a transformed life, full of goodness.

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Davin: In spite of the variables around us right, in spite of that, from it, how do we influence the world for the better.

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Davin: A an element of this again through this transformation, I think there's a personal journey and then there's a communal journey right that that goes in hand in hand with it and the word trust, I think, is part of it and.

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Davin: For somebody who's struggling and has, this is the story of the season of your life, this is pornography.

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Davin: What comes with that is that they it's hard to trust yourself you've proven you're not trustworthy to yourself, for commitment that you would have you're doing something you hate to do.

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Davin: So how can you trust yourself really deep, deep down inside, how can you how can you stretch yourself as a man or a woman as a spouse or a parent as an employee or a boss, as a citizen right there's such a deep problem of integrity.

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Davin: that a person has and.

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Davin: To have somebody go through this journey of accountability with pornography, teachers, it really teaches us that we can have we can hold our inner commitments.

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Davin: We can make a commitment and honor it.

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Davin: And that's a lesson that we we didn't believe about ourselves before right and so wow that's a massively confidence building right.

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Davin: Over time, as you realize right you're part of that trend we talked about a transformation journey, the transformation journey is you realize, you can be trustworthy.

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Davin: And if you can be trustworthy.

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Davin: Then you're on a pattern for massive growth.

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Davin: Others can trust you right, so I just I think that's that's you know that golden ticket for life it's it's training wheels in a way, like it's.

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Davin: If we can provide for people who have broken the trust in themselves evidence that they can regain that integrity, they can begin a pattern of interest, really.

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Davin: You know how do you.

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Davin: need, how do you lead a team to be if you don't have that right.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: yeah.

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Karen Potter: And you bring up a really good point too, because I think it's interesting that a covenant eyes, like.

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Karen Potter: Our mission our promise is to help people you know live lives, full of integrity and have these restored relationships with their friends and family and God, you know.

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Karen Potter: And it's intrinsically built into everything we do here and.

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Karen Potter: I just I love, how you talk about that re establishing of trust, because you know I think something that's important for our listeners is that.

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Karen Potter: that's a process, it takes time, you know, to re establish that integrity within ourselves and, and you know, to live up to our own promises to ourselves and to others, it takes time and it's a journey, and I think part of that.

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Karen Potter: You know that's why covenant eyes, with you on that journey we're part of that journey, because it is a long call I just like to point that out because I.

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Karen Potter: think that was really strong point that you mentioned.

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Karen Potter: Oh go ahead.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: Sorry yeah well, I was just gonna say you know Karen you brought up covenant eyes and the promise remake I wonder, David, can you just speak a little bit about the mission of covenant eyes.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: And how we really do seek to be world class, not because we want to be great, but because we have a heart for the people that we serve and we truly want what's best for them, including ultimately that united relationship with God.

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Davin: Absolutely yeah it's such a deep you know I think about pornography and the there was a.

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Davin: Book I read number years ago sort of booklet by going and john kolko on wicked problems and I read and I thought yeah pornography is a wicked problem.

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Davin: It had it's like a hydrate has so many heads right economically personally socially right from an addiction perspective it's it's such a difficult issue to face because it's so massive.

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Davin: and

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Davin: I would say that you know pornography use lands in the realm of sexual brokenness right.

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Davin: And that's not new, this is, this is an age old.

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Davin: All part of the human problem right, this is.

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Davin: This is a very human scale problem, but what happened is over the last you know 50 years with technology and and really over the last maybe 20 years with the Internet and mobile devices that I just think that the availability of pornography.

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Davin: Has.

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Davin: it's hard to put a number on it, but it's absolutely exploded it's absolutely exploded around the world in us and, and I think an analogy would be like.

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Davin: You know people, people have you know issues with food like mcdonald's and I get a big MAC right why because it has sodium and fat in it.

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Davin: My body is craving nice that's why.

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Davin: And then I wanted to read more of the coke right because it's so you know, like the thirsty because, like right there hyper stimulants like these are.

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Davin: they're wired they're wired for our bodies to just consume, this is it healthy, by all means no right, and I think pornography, has a similar effect.

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Davin: On our on our sexual our sexual wiring right and it just would be to this sort of massive addiction, with all the issues that we talked about before of secrecy and shame.

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Davin: So.

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Davin: I I would pose that.

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Davin: there's so much pain in the world there's so much it leads to broken people.

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Davin: It leads to broken people, but those broken people lead to broken families broken relationships poker face.

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Davin: Right, I think untended this issue, I think that I would pose that the journey of the church itself of the faithful is at risk.

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Davin: Just like I said earlier, I dropped a church and couldn't go in the doors okay.

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Davin: Well, eventually, I did but play that out for how many people walk away and never walk into a church again.

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Davin: Right that's an invisible loss right the pastor didn't see that, because the person wasn't there right it's it's it's it's easy to mess what was never there in the first place, and I think that's.

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Davin: Just millions of people.

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Davin: Who are not living a full life or not engaging in their communities and the poor communities and healthy ways.

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Davin: And I know that we've all heard stories, or maybe even you know associated and families that have.

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Davin: brokenness physical abuse emotional abuse mental abuse, sexual abuse.

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Davin: That carries a grandparent or a parent to a child.

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Davin: Right and that generational impact.

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Davin: is absolutely devastating it's absolutely it's it's it's heart wrenching.

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Davin: and, especially, people who are in the thick of it.

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Davin: So.

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Davin: My we talked about the impact of pornography on the world.

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Davin: it's pretty easy for me to see that outcome.

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Davin: That brokenness towards abuse.

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Davin: Right and how many millions of families are experiencing some way or will as part of US continues and there is a causal connection it absolutely is but I didn't watch pornography continue consume pornography, we train ourselves to objectify people.

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Davin: And we fail to see him.

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Davin: In a compassionate way as.

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Davin: It just does and we just were sensitized towards violence.

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Davin: What a curse.

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Davin: So I take heart in those times when I think.

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Davin: How many families.

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Davin: because somebody in that family used covenant eyes.

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Davin: and was able to put that generational history to death.

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Davin: rate and their grandchildren will live in a House of peace and love.

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Davin: that's that's what it's my my peace and love healthy whole house right full of love and laughter good right that's the that's the benefit of somebody in this generational line, making a choice to stop that curse right.

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Davin: And right how many right thousands and thousands and thousands right how many millions of people can be impacted by this, so I think that when I think what is the mission of covenant eyes, I.

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Davin: there's a lot to be said, but that might be a way to visualize it to say what are we here for we're here to stop a curse upon humanity.

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Davin: And to partner with people who are learning to come right take take a stand and go through that journey of healing and transformation, not just for themselves.

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Davin: But blow it out to your lifetime blow it out to your whole family's lifetime, what kind of beautiful influence can follow.

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Davin: What is certainly a challenging journey but boy, is it worth it, I wish people could see the IBM right put the people could see the beautiful outcome, the beautiful impact the generations later who wouldn't choose to quit.

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Karen Potter: Right who wouldn't.

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Davin: Absolutely everybody so that's I think that's at the heart of our mission is that word a historical time because of where the Internet has taken us and pornography is taken us.

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Davin: And as as humanity, we did not have wisdom in this, but we're we're in the place of origin that wisdom.

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Davin: about how to live a better life and how about have healthier families regard to technology, particularly about pornography.

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Karen Potter: Oh, my gosh David that was great and.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: You know that's one of the reasons.

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Karen Potter: I absolutely love being a part of the mission here because really we are helping people create a legacy.

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Karen Potter: and change the course of you know their family's history ever you know their future it's just it's an amazing.

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Karen Potter: mission that we're on here and I want to leave our listeners, you know, on a positive note that.

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Karen Potter: You know covenant eyes is here to support you, we are a resource and a tool to this journey to freedom from pornography.

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Karen Potter: We also foster that deep accountability relationship, I mean that is the heart and soul of our software, it is about connecting me with other people who will walk with you that.

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Karen Potter: barnabas that Timothy and that Paul kind of relationship.

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Karen Potter: On and I just I want to encourage everyone out there if you're listening and you're you're struggling with pornography and you're not sure what to do.

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Karen Potter: You know covenant eyes is here to help you, you know we have a customer support line, please give us a call we'll help connect you with tools and resources.

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Karen Potter: You know our software is an amazing step in the right direction to getting that accountability in place for life so.

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Karen Potter: I just want to reach out to everyone out there, I know that somebody's listening and needed to hear this message today from David and David gosh that was so powerful and amazing and thank you for sharing.

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Davin: Your welcomes pleasure to talk with.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: David thanks so much, and if you are listening and you have been inspired as well, I really want to encourage you to spread the word, you know, the way we get this message out far and wide.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: Is you spreading the word sharing the podcasts subscribing to the podcast leaving reviews so other people can see what you've listened to.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: It all starts with you, so please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to drop us a note, if you have been inspired if covenant eyes has.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: touched your life and and helped you reclaim your life and reclaim your family and the legacy of your family, let us know by sending us an email at podcast at covenant eyes COM.

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Brandon.Clark@covenanteyes.com: that's podcast at covenant eyes COM we love to hear stories and we get to see them and hear about them all the time, and we want to hear what yours is as well.

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Karen Potter: Absolutely, and with that we do want to close today's podcast with just a quick reminder that, if you are ready to take that next step in the journey to freedom, we do have a free 30 day trial of covenant eyes available to our podcast listeners.

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Karen Potter: listeners only if you go to covenant eyes.com and in checkout enter the promo code free podcast that's free podcast you'll get a free 30 day trial of covenant eyes and you can start to experience the journey to freedom.

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Karen Potter: And again from everyone here covenant eyes Thank you so much for joining us for today's podcast and we'll see you next time.